Thom Hogan thoughts about the new Olympus products (some Marketing mistakes?)
I have been told that Olympus did show mockups of E-PM1 and E-PL3 cameras at the various Olympus events that toke place in different parts of the world. And those cameras will be available in autumn only. To me it looks like Olympus were in hurry to show their GF3 and NEX-C3 competitor (the E-PM1)! And price of the cameras is also unknown. What do you think about the Olympus strategy to announce products without to mention the price and with an availability that si still far away? Something could be wrong or not? An example: who will buy the E-PL2 (still available everywhere at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay) knowing that “sooner or later” and with an “unknown” price the E-PL3 will be on market?
Thom Hogan describes exactly what I am thinking about the recent Olympus product/marketing strategy:
1) “There’s surprisingly little differentiation in key features of the three cameras.” And sometimes the differences are quite confusing (See the lower 3fps frame rate for the E-P3 when the lower end models can do 5.5fps).
2) “Olympus’ press releases and Web sites aren’t much help in differentiating the models, and I found a couple of mistakes on them, as well. Worse still, OlympusUSA is now in the confusing position of marketing six different Pen models (three incoming, three outgoing), and the best different at or they really provide on their site is simply price. Of course, none of the three new models are available yet and apparently won’t be for a couple of months, further confusing customers. Olympus, like most of the camera companies, seems to be of the “keep the customer confused” mentality in terms of marketing (yes, there’s really a type of marketing that utilizes customer confusion). Either that, or they’re just confused themselves.”
But the Olympus products are definitely better than the Olympus marketing:
3) “Overall I judge this to be a nice set of products from Olympus. Focus is improved, lots of small things have been addressed, fixed, or improved, the two new lenses fill in some gaps for enthusiasts, and I’m excited to try them out. As many of you know, I’ve been using a Pen for some of my work since my Africa trip in 2009. I’m sure that will continue, given the new models’ features.”
Overall I do think Olympus made some very welcome improvements (AF, own “tweaked” sensor, interchangeable grip, the new lenses are awesome!), but they still need to get rid of some “confusion” inside their product and marketing strategy.
—
Hot preorders: Olympus E-P3 preorders at Amazon US, Adorama, BHphoto and Amazon UK. Worldwide shipment start soon (?).
Olympus 12mm f/2.0 preorders at Amazon US, Adorama, B&H and eBay. Worldwide shipment start on July 22.
Olympus 45mm f/1.8 preorders at Amazon US, Adorama, B&H. Worldwide shipment start in october
And GF3 preorders at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
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2221312
11 months ago |olympus is clueless… dead company….
deniz erdem
11 months ago |GreyOwl
11 months ago |They are not quite dead yet, I think I can detect a faint pulse….
Ab
11 months ago |I think Thom misses the point that consumers have hundreds of options in the P&S arena to choose from. They tend to choose on looks and colour, and price with a sprinkle of specs.
The enthusiast will choose what he chooses based on his needs, the beginner will pick the red one
As long as there is $50 between bodies at the $400 price point, it will also play a factor in buying decisions. Sometimes Thom does get a smidgen carried away and forgets many time consumer buying just works itself out with those simple factors.
Ab
Thomas
11 months ago |True. A few years ago my daughter wanted a new digital camera. I shopped for good quality, and price.
All she wanted was pink.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |And what if everyone has a “red one” in their lineup? ;~)
Color can’t be a differentiater, as there’s nothing to keep anyone else from making the same color if it turns out to be popular. So making colors is not exactly great marketing, is it? Moreover, they’re all reading the same marketing consultancy documents, which is why we suddenly have all these brown cameras this year.
So, by show of hands, how many of you really think that Olympus is “more with it” in terms of fads and trends in colors and fashion than any of the other camera companies?
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |But you can get an EPM1 in PURPLE. That’s a HUGE difference!
Dummy00001
11 months ago |Mr.Reeee, it’s “pink” not “purple”. Yeah, I know, hard to keep up with the times. But we should try. HELLO KITTY FTW.
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |It’s actually fuschia… which is purple-ish, a mixture of red and blue. Fuschia isn’t a true purple, but close enough. Guess what Olympus calls it?
if you think Oly purple and Hello Kitty pink are similar, just remind me to never ask you for color advice.
Maybe my color theory teacher from art school could help you out.
Wanna see pink? Look at the pink GF3. Or that sweet little pussy, Hello Kitty. Kawaii!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768730-REG/Panasonic_DMC_GF3KP_Lumix_DMC_GF3_Digital_Camera.html
Here’s a nice desktop for your computer. It’s PINK.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.anime.com/Hello_Kitty/images/kitty-wallpaper.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.anime.com/Hello_Kitty/&usg=__LF01ByT4GCcveKceIw0zjHR4Lqs=&h=285&w=380&sz=26&hl=en&start=30&sig2=MZLXK429-s8KswD0oyFDBw&zoom=1&tbnid=nbglGwi3Guyr-M:&tbnh=92&tbnw=123&ei=OXISTqzBDcLogAe3ltzjAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhello%2Bkitty%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1397%26bih%3D1064%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1
Dragphoenyx
11 months ago |5 5 5 I like this…
Bob B.
11 months ago |You guys are too funny….but why just go for the desktop wallpaper when you can own the camera!!!????
1.3MP…tempting huh?
http://www.amazon.com/Hello-Kitty-1-2e3MP-White-2f-28KT7004-29/dp/B001D1BEDC
Anonymous
11 months ago |My daughter would probably choose the purple one out of a colour choice & I’m sure many other buyers in that category will do the same. You have to remember that some P&S upgraders just want the ability to use a manual zoom ring & have a camera that can take much better photos than a P&S, but they aren’t familiar with nor want all the buttons & dials & that is where the E-PM1 will appeal.
Ross
11 months ago |That was me from another computer & I forgot to add name etc.
cL
11 months ago |@Thom
>> And what if everyone has a “red one” in their lineup? ;~) >>
Believe or not, Ab has a point. Most of the P&S buyers don’t care (nor want to understand) the differences between a good and a bad camera (if there is ever a good definition between good and bad). And PEN line is to “up-convert” P&S shooters, so marketing wise, it is very closely related to that. They just buy whatever other people are buying, so at least if it turns out to be a bad camera, at least they are not the only one….
With your experience in marketing, you should already know brand is a big differentiation factor in itself. Brand is not a guarantee of quality, but it is an indication of general quality. When someone thinks about Sony, for example, they already know what to expect (whether that’s the truth or merely a perception, that’s another issue). That’s why market researchers want to use double-blind test. Once you put a red dot on that camera, people already made up their prejudice for/against that camera.
However, I do agree with you. I think Olympus don’t know what they are doing. They should have sit down and discuss what they like and don’t like about the new models and do some SWOT analysis. I think two lines of PENs is good enough. I personally don’t think E-PM line is necessary, since XZ line is good enough for that segment (in fact, as a consumer, I would choose XZ-1 over E-PM1 myself).
From consumer’s POV, they just want a camera that shoots good photo. If it looks pretty, they’ll brag about it to their friends. If they talked to their friends in very technical terms when they brag, they might turn their friends away…. They might as well tell them “Look at my new red camera.” If Olympus did an impressive commercial campaign, words of mouth will gather momentum and give their consumers a little more confidence and a little more bragging rights.
That’s a lesson people should learn from OM system…. Pros loved it, because it’s a capable fully mechanical camera with good library of lenses. But it’s not something you would go out and brag about it. It doesn’t look exciting, it’s a little quirky. It’s not a conversation piece.
Anonymous
11 months ago |>> I personally don’t think E-PM line is necessary,
>> since XZ line is good enough for that segment
sure XZ is good enough – but the E-PM should be a first “large sensor interchangeable lens” camera for many people – and in a sense introduce them to photography (as opposed to just snapping pictures).
As such – I find this an essential addition to m43 – and it should be priced very attractively – same price as XZ1.
Sell it with a pancake – so people have to go and buy the kit zoom.
Once they get to know the camera they might want more: a better body and lenses and you may just have hooked them into becoming an enthusiast / gear junk.
Call it stepping stone theory or repeat business.
It makes much more sense than bridge cameras that offer everything at once – with little need nor incentive to add stuff. (just crappy IQ)
Hey , it worked for me. Came from a P&S to a PEN – just looking for better IQ not expecting to want or need anything more.
I spent less than 1000 euro on photography in the past decade.
One year later – I’m on my fifth m43 lens, and plenty small accesories – for at least 2,5k total, or a 2500% growth!
Actually, Oly/Pana should offer a 100 euro trade-in of a highend P&S for a PEN/GF without lens – and count their subsequent earnings.
And we will all benefit from more m43 users.
Ab
11 months ago |Hey Thom,
Then it falls to other deciding factors, specs, size, shape, brand, clerk recommendation, mates suggestion etc.
This is a new market for camera makers, who believe many of their sales will come from P&S upgraders. Is that true? I don’t know but it has the potential to be true. Olympus created HUGE buzz with the EP1, and leapt ahead in terms of Fashion with their retro design, that showed a bold direction (even if borrowing from the past).
I dont know if you are aware of this concept: http://youtu.be/iIiAAhUeR6Y It is an excellent talk on consumer choice realities and marketing.
Producing products for a broader public has its challenges. Producing cameras with slight adjustments works, it works for computer manufacturers, car manufacturers, phone manufacturers, food producers… it even works for clothing manufacturers. Because people want choice, there is enough reason to choose between the olympus products. Marketing introduces specific benefits of products, it doesnt matter that the smaller model has the tilt screen and the higher model doesnt, they will sell using specific features to demonstrate the market placement (with whatever budget they have).
What i said still holds true, the consumer will choose based on looks first and specs second, the enthusiast will choose based on his needs, neither of those situations will be affected by the closeness of these models.
Olympus has addressed the main spoken difference between buyers choosing into this market. EVERY salesperson i have spoken to has two big reasons for pushing consumers away from Olympus… To panasonic for AF, and to Sony for size.
Ab
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |> Producing products for a broader public has its challenges
Yes, it does.
It’s price driven.
It’s fad driven.
It’s availability driven.
It’s promotion driven.
It’s brand driven.
It’s marketing checklist driven.
It’s first impression driven.
It’s impulsive purchase driven.
So of those things, which is the E-PM1 and E-PL3 living up to? And those names fall under which category? (Hint: in the US Olympus is NOT using the Mini and Lite names in their marketing.)
There’s a difference between putting out something cute/interesting/nice/cuddly/pretty and expecting it to become fad/impulse driven and doing things that fan the fad/impulse. Olympus USA’s marketing for the Lite/Mini so far consist of long boring marketing checklists of “what.” There’s no “why.” Worse still, “Blazing Speed” is the LAST thing on the E-PM1 page and buried well below the fold when we know that one of the primary reasons for someone to move from a compact camera to a mirrorless/DSLR is speed. They’re dissatisfied with the speed of their camera, not the “Ease of Use” factor that Olympus puts at the top of their marketing.
Ironically, most camera companies have very little focus in their approach to selling their products.
YouDidntDidYou
11 months ago |@Ab
+1
dsdsdds
11 months ago |next to nobody will buy their cameras.
sales are declining for olympus and they will be broke soon enough.
i rather spend my money on canon or nikon then these doomed crap.
Goodi
11 months ago |The reason why Olympus shows the three cameras at once is that from July to September is holiday season in Europe. When you launch products in this time nobody will be interested. Therefore one common release date for the three models makes sense.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Not only will nobody be interested, but nobody will actually notice that you introduced them ;~).
Thing is, it’s different in Japan than it is in the US and Europe, which is one reason why we get all these late spring and summer announcements. But considering that the companies get two-thirds of their sales from US and Europe you’d think that some day they’d optimize their marketing for those two markets. Apparently not in my lifetime.
slomo
11 months ago |But, what happen with the issue that Thom raises with the sensor? Now that there is more info about the sensor, he is completely silent about it.
Well, which is it then Thom, is it a new designed sensor or warmed up old sensor?
Zonkie
11 months ago |He did mention in the comments that there are changes to the sensor, and that according to a reliable source he has, there should be an improvement of around one stop in noise at high ISO (but raw converters must be updated to take advantage of it).
Personally I still find it hard to believe after seeing all the samples on the web. I’d love it to be true, but my own bet is that the new sensor will be similar, but probably a bit worse, than the old one at high ISO. I guess it’s the price to pay for the fast readout.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |It’s a warmed up sensor as far I can tell, the only question is how warmed up?
Curiously, my friend has been analyzing raws posted elsewhere and doesn’t see the same changes as on the camera he has. Which has us both scratching our heads.
Joey
11 months ago |Ah was just going to ask if you had any updates
So we are thinking the same sensor, tweaked? Either way i’m quite tempted as the AF improvements look great and the IQ of the past pens has been good enough for my purposes.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |I’ve always believed that it’s the same sensor tweaked. First of all, it’s NMOS. The question is what has been tweaked. Somewhere in the mountains of words I’ve posted here I speculated on what could or would be tweaked.
Joey
11 months ago |Sorry to be a bit thick, but technical stuff has never been a strong point, does NMOS change increase the off sensor (if thats the right term) information gathering, or has it fundamentally changed the sensors light gathering ability? (A quick google left me none the wiser)
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |A sensor consists of a bunch of parts. You have a photo diode that collects light. It is part of the sensel, which collects the light and stores the electrons. You may have additional circuitry alongside the sensel on each photosite that does something with the electrons other than pass them along. NMOS relates the type of material used in the transistors that are in the sensel and support electronics. I know of at least four different transistor materials that have been used, there probably are more. Different makers went different ways with their transistors because they found differences in manufacturing and/or in performance. In the case of Nikon with their LBCAST, they went that way for simplicity. Their claim was that the simplified transistor junctions reduced noise over traditional CMOS.
Personally, I think it all has just as much to do with what materials you picked a long time ago to work with. Basically everyone is trying to optimize what they’ve got. I’m not convinced that at the end of the day that there’s any big win to pick NMOS over CMOS or vice versa.
The point I guess I was trying to make is that Panasonic is the only large sensor maker working an NMOS fab and who has NMOS sensor foundations. Thus, we’d have to believe that Olympus came up with an NMOS solution themselves (which makes little sense, as CMOS would give them more choices where to fab) or they simply started with a Panasonic sensor design and changed things on it. The latter makes more sense to the things we’ve heard so far.
Joey
11 months ago |gottcha, thanks for the explanation
Andyoz
11 months ago |Thom
Thats very interesting that your friend is seeing more improvements on the camera he has, than on the raw images posted from other cameras taken by other users. Does this imply that there are different levels of firmware? It would seem odd that the cameras given to reviewers were not the latest and greatest. Unless they are still fixing it now. Seems odd.
Perhaps your friend should contact Olympus and let them know.
Perhaps there was a batch of prototypes which were accidentally produced with the ‘old’ E-P2 sensor
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |It’s a puzzle all right. But I can’t say more without compromising his identity.
Milos Janata
11 months ago |LG buys Olympus! check the news..
x
11 months ago |Olympus’ announcement is weird. If they had announced only the E-P3, I might have bought it. It’s a little out of my budget and I knew that eventually those features would go into the lower level E-PL3, but I would have considered the purchase, not knowing anything else.
Now I know *for sure* that there will be “soon” both a E-PL3 and even something “lower” and possibly cheaper, the E-PM1. Given the way they made the announcement, I am not buying the E-P3 at its sticker point, for sure. So they have lost a possible customer.
Have they stolen a possible customer from another company?
I wasn’t interested in the GF2/3: just the same old stuff in a not-so-good new body, at a not-so-good price. Strangely enough, after this announcement, I feel myself considering the GF2 and/or GF3, which without this announcement I would not have considered at all. Why?
1) focus speed with my favorite lens (the Panny 20mm) doesn’t seem that great (see the video on a couple of rumors ago) – waiting for an official review to be sure, but if that’s correct…
2) The IQ is better, but only marginally, for what I’ve seen so far – waiting for an official review to be sure, but if that’s correct…
3) I hope that the price of the GF2 and 3 will fall (this is key point, if it doesn’t, I will not buy them).
So, how scores Olympus in marketing? Very poor indeed! At best, they’ve lost a possible sale to me (of the E-P3). At worst, they convinced me to buy from their competitor (sure, shrinking their margins because I wouldn’t buy at current price, but still it’s the opposite of their intentions…)
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |True. I don’t understand why they pushed the E-PM1 and E-PL3 announcements into the E-P3 announcement. It’s clear that the E-P3 is the manufacturing priority at the moment. It’s also clear that there’s still E-PL1 and E-PL2 inventory in the channel (at least here in the US, but I think elsewhere too), so pre-announcing an E-PL3 with better autofocusing and a tilt screen just devalued that lingering inventory.
They should have launched E-P3 now, E-PM1 and E-PL3 after Labor Day.
Miroslav
11 months ago |“They should have launched E-P3 now, E-PM1 and E-PL3 after Labor Day.”
They should have launched all three models on different days of different months. More press coverage, more time for people to read all the specs and the reviews. This resembles P&S launch where 10 new models are shown simultaneously.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Press coverage only helps if people are reading the press. In Europe, not so much in August. In the US, not so much in July and August. Thus, we’re left with “announce E-P1 in June, announce others in September” (after Labor Day, the traditional day when Americans stop thinking about vacations and go back to work and thinking about what they’ll buy for Christmas ;~). You have to announce in September, because in the US you don’t want to push the dealer base into new stuff in October through December: they’ve already committed their year-end money by then.
There was a reason why trade shows used to be mostly in early Spring, early Fall.
Svensie
11 months ago |They should have done what they HAVE DONE. I´m waiting for 2 years now that Oly shows a clear way and strategy for the near future. And now finally I think I recognize it.
I didn´t and don´t want to see a surprising camera launch every three months – making clear I bought the wrong model some weeks before. Like Sony started the NEX biz I want to see a an entire system. And now there it is – in my eyes. The E-PL3 is announced to be available in about 2 months. And then it´ll replace my E-PL1, my XZ-1 and maybe my ingenius E-620. And I will also buy the 50/1,8, the WCON-P01 and probably the VF-2. The E-PL3 is the camera I´m waiting for until I sold my Canon G3.
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |+1
Especially since aside from body styles and a few minor feature differences, they’re all more or less the same camera. The EPL3 and EPM1 are exactly the same size except for the EPL3 tilt screen (and 3.4mm of thickness). And if they’re trying to lure the P&S crowd, why no built-in flash on the “low-end” models? At least the GF3 managed to have one shoehorned in.
Given all that, a staggered release (EPL3 and EPM1 in the fall), with shipping close to follow would have made more sense.
Olympus makes some nice cameras and the new lenses look good (+ the 9-18mm), but they never fail to perplex me.
Simon
11 months ago |May I mention that not all countries in the world care for Labor Day in the US…
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |True, not all countries care about the US holidays. But 33-35% of your camera sales should be from the US. Meanwhile, most of Europe is on vacation in August, and that’s another 33-35% of your sales. Yet here we have Olympus dropping a new camera into August for two-thirds of their possible audience. As it was, I had to pull some strings to have ANY chance of getting an E-P3 before I head off into the wilds and incommunicado this August. No idea if they’ll make my deadline, but if they don’t, it won’t be until late September or so that I’d have any chance to shoot with it.
slomo
11 months ago |Thom,
The earthquake early this year may have something to do with them being late. As I recall, normally new Olympus cameras are announced in spring so that they will be available for summer vacation purchase.
Michael Meissner
11 months ago |Now, being a techy, I am not allowed to understand marketing
But I had a thought, and that was maybe the idea on the early announcement for the E-PM1 and E-Pl3 was paving the way for a big box store like Walmart, Staples, Best Buy, Sears, etc. to carry the E-PM1 or E-PL3, leaving the E-P3 to the dedicated camera stores and internet. It might be those channels aren’t open yet (they missed Dad and Grad in June, but Back to School and then later Christmas are coming up). I know in the past, Olympus has done special models for big stores (E-600 and E-450 come to mind), but they needed to get the thing announced before Labor Day (in the US).
Mal
11 months ago |I don’t want to be an Olympus apologist, but it is good to know the specs of the upcoming cameras before I put down a lot of money on the EP3, which I have on order. And I can always trade it up for the Pro model when/if that comes out.
Overall I am really excited that Olympus are back in the game and I can use all my nice lenses on good bodies in the future.
Neonart
11 months ago |X,
I think the EP3 is in a different league compared to the GF2 & GF3. Sure, they’re nice cameras, but the metal body, dual dials, customization, flash shoe, wireless flash control, etc. of the EP3 make those Pannys very unlikely competitors. The EPL3 & EPM1 are more comparable. So if you where considering the GF2/3, your real new choices are the EPL3 and EPM1. Just wait a month or two and compare then.
As for your other concerns,
1) Do you own the Panny 20? Just making sure, because otherwise you’re just complaining about a lens you don’t own. But it is a nice lens to have, therefore, wait till more sites test how it focuses on the Oly’s compared to the Pannys and make an informed decision then, not just based on one Youtube video. If you don’t own it, The EP3 with the 17mm is actually a less expensive option, because you don’t have to buy a separate $400 lens to have that pancake. Albeit it’s not nearly as good as the Panny 20, it’ll get you by.
2) Yeah, wait for official reviews. Again the GFs are know to be using the old 12MP sensor. Even if this is the same sensor on the Pens, it’s the latest incarnation modified to render better results.
3) Again see what the EPL3 and EPM1 come in at price-wise compared to the GFs.
If you look at the broader picture, you’ll see you’re actually better off now with LOTS of choices from both companies. Either way you’ll end up in a really good system with the greatest amount of choices at the moment (and for some time to come.) There are 2 ultra-wide zooms, 5 standard zooms, 4 tele-photo zooms, 1 macro, 1 fisheye, 3 pancakes, 1 wide prime, 1 (or 2) portrait, and 2 normal brights! If you love photography moreso than specs and brand battles you can’t go wrong with any of the m4/3 cameras.
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |The EP3 is Oly’s top of the line, while the GF3 is Panasonic’s bottom end. Panasonic will be happy to see the head-to-head comparison.
I believe the GF3 uses the same 3-processor graphics engine as the GH2 and G3, so even if they used the old 12MP sensor, there will be performance improvements all-around. I just wish they had included the control wheel in the GF3, those horrid dial-thing’s are the pits. It’s a real usability loss.
Choice is good, if the choices are clear, as are Panasonic’s. Oly should have just not bothered with the EPM1. AND discontinued all the EPx1 bodies!
x
11 months ago |This was a discussion about their marketing, not my needs… Anyway:
0) comparability. AF speed and IQ are the main things I want. Price is the main drawback, so knowing that not one, but two cheaper options will come “soon”, Olympus has lost a possible sale now. As other have said, this could be a good strategy, since I may have stretched my budget, bought the EP3 and being disappointed in a few months. So maybe it’s lost sale, but gained trust.
1) no, but that’s the one I want. The Oly 17mm is too wide and too slow (aperture-wise), not to mention too poor in IQ. The Panny 25mm is too pricey and too large/heavy. If Olympus had a pancake 22mm f/2 or so…. And if they bundle it with their cheaper kits, instead of the crappy zoom or the body-only options priced at the same level as the with-zoom… Since they don’t, my only lense will be the Panny 20mm.
2) and 3) – sure I will, that’s the plan!
Bottom line: yes I agree we are actually much better off now with LOTS of choices. I was just saying that Olympus strategy might be the “loser” strategy. But maybe not, if they get the trust of people who can plan in advance like me for a cheaper option.
However, they’ve got many thing wrong, or at least puzzling: lower fps on the top camera, missing articulation on the top camera, wrong aspect ratio for the display (I was already disappointed by the G1 having a 3:2 display and how do they fix it? with a 16:9? for a 4:3 sensor? really? WTF!!), missing orientation sensor (any $50 camera on woot.com has it), this fad about colors, and the list goes on…
None of them is a real deal-breaker, but the overall picture is annoying.
agent00soul
11 months ago |If you compare the E-P3 and the E-5 at the Imaging resource comparometer at 1600 iso, you will see such similarities that they really must be based on the same sensor.
frosti7
11 months ago |i think that
1) AF speed is overhyped – YES the pen was slow, but they could just up the refersh rates to 120hz(g3 speed) and i doubt anyone would dare to complain
2)E-P3, yes, small tweaks here and there, bottom line = 2 years passed, small improvments too small! new sensor does not look so promising!
AND the worst part is -> this sensor would probably serv Olympus for the upcoming 2 years?
Sorry guys, NEX-7 is coming in augost with 24mpx and 3mpx EVF, its probably going to be the same size as the pen’s, and would have much better DR and ISO’s, besides it shows some EXITING innovations as focus PEAKING (IMHO much more usefull then F.A.S.T) focus which makes all MF lens that much usable in an instant!
I used to hate to Magnify-MF because once you zoom in u cant tell what the hell is going on inside the frame! nere liked that mf-magnify asisst..
peaking got me exited, killer DR got me exited, 3mpx EVF gets me exited – not af speed!
Oh what the hell i’ll say it…. The sony AutoHDR+ and AUTO-Stich features seem truly amazing to me! *yes, on this one you can flame me – i deserve it
Wt21
11 months ago |Lenses are cr*p and the camera feels like a playstation. I tried both NEX 3 and 5. Sold them both. There’s more to shooting than stitch assist. Enjoy!
Neonart
11 months ago |Frosti, the NEXs are good cameras. They have a great sensor, but unfortunately with only 3 lenses and the two zooms being so huge, it really is a funky system. There are about 20 lenses for m4/3s! Have you held the tiny Oly 14-42 or 9-18!?
Then there’s the interface and lack of manual controls. That matters to lots of people.
If you like the NEX system, thats awesome. Go shoot some stuff. Enjoy it. But is it really worth it to try to talk down another system? Is it?
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |Plus there’s hardly any room for your fingertips between the grip and the bigger lenses on the NEX5. That’s shocking and I don’t have particularly large hands.
Pablo
11 months ago |Mr. Reee.
Please, give me one lens you have issues holding on the nex.
I put a Soligor 135/2 on it , Rokkor 58/1.2 or Nokton 50/1.1 and I never had one single issue with placing fingers of my right hand on the grip of the NEX3 with any of those lenses. The left hand supports the lens and focuses also without any probs.
However, due to the lack of a grip on the EP1 and the non-existing MF enlarging button, using legacy glas on the old (and also new) Oly is a real PITA…
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |Whatever was on the thing the other day at BestBuy near Lincoln Center. I think it was the mid-sized zoom. Anyway, I picked it up and there was hardly any room for my finger tips. i was carrying my GH2, so I had something to compare it to.
We all know how much you love the NEXes… I had seriously considered the NEX5 at one point… but the ergonomics have much to be desired.
frosti7
11 months ago |Neonart, No, but i previously owned 7-14, 14-140, 20mm and GH1, i love the lens and camera, but i dont love the color and dynamic range
I belive that for users like Thom Hogan m43 is a nice sidekik for his Nikon rig, and so he would be more willing to forgive for such flaws
me, on the other hand, the m43 was the MAIN system which i upgraded to from canon EOS40D, and IQ wise it was a DOWNGRADE, that is why i wanst too happy with the output
Pablo
11 months ago |Hi Frosti7,
glad to see one sane person here around.
I really am sorry for these Oly positive guys, how they keep repeating that “fast AF” mantra all over again…
The new NEX7 will be full of progressive technology, however they will be forced by Oly to use the same old sensor for another product life cycle period. How sad :>
I thought they allready had enough for two years of using that noisy and DR poor mini sensor.
Now Pany made the G3 with a much better imager, and yet, Oly NOT. They just say to the people “they tweaked it”.
I don’t know, if they can even imagine, how cool the AUTO HDR feature on Sony HW is… I know, it doesn’t work with RAW and the Sony JPGs are smeared, but yet, There is no way, one can get such a DR from a m4/3 camera yet :>
And, just to be fair. I still think, that for night shooting and extreme low light, when the DR of the shot is so or so low, my EP1 with IBIS and the 20/1.7, is superior to my NEX with any lens.
And, I don’t deserve nothing bad from you guys…
Just want you to open your eyes and test it for yourselves.
You won’t touch an m4/3 camera again, when you compare the shots from the same lens on both bodies :>
dimka
11 months ago |Hi Pablo,
I saw some your comments before and I do take them very positively. It is essential to take a critical view to m43 and Oly developments. It is even more essential to publish them here so only-m43 users can see them.
But the purpose I am writing this is to ask you if you have/know any samples or tests that show superiority of NEX cameras over m43 (for me Oly, in particular) ones in DR? Can I see the difference on dpreview.com test shots?
I am E-P1 user for 2 years now. I like results from this camera and the only complains are not-fast and mostly chaotic AF and display (useless in sunny conditions). High ISO is no problem for me as it is an issue in about 1% of my images only. As I feel it is time to move on to another camera in near future, I would appreciate very much your insight!
Jim
11 months ago |Totaly Agree – well mostly…
Sharp AF is a good feature – you can’t ignoor it – this ep3 looks like you can take photos out a moving car window no problems! – Try that on an EP1… or MF!
But 3mpix viewer, auto pan stitch, auto HDR, Multi shot super ISO and auto 3D (cha cha method) are excelent ablities to have in a camera – come on these are “computers with eyes” – lets start taking advantage of that – and not just treat them as “eyes”…. at least include a intervalometer… its no extra technology!!!!
Oh and the focus peaking is bloody essential – we NEED focus peaking badly… along with focus distance display (on native lenses)…
N.B. In the old Oly 740uz 3mpix super zoom camera from about 2004… they implemented a good version of focus check zoom.. the center 50% of the screen is 10x zoom and the remaning edge 50% is just normal full frame – that way you can get a good idea of your focus and framing at the same time…. but I would want this as well as, not insterad of all the other modes!
Joey
11 months ago |I think if you shoot MF and legacy glass as many people seem to be doing these days the NEX is a no brainer, some people don’t get on with the ergonomics but i found them reasonably usable (and i’m sure that if i spent more time would have got use to it). Generally though if i’m using ‘legacy’ glass i prefer to shoot film anyway, not entirely sure but it just seems wrong to use digital for some reason (maybe it’s taking more time and slowing down generally, but i find it hard to explain).
For me though m4/3 is mainly a compact system for festivals, travelling etc. A small shoulder bag and i’ve got everything i need, 9-18 walkabout/WA, 20 for low light and 40-150 for tele and i’m sorted with a few other small bits and pieces. Ok there is sacrifice in IQ compared to FF, but i can live with that, especially if i’m away for longer periods, this is something that NEX just can’t match at the moment anyway, my 2p worth and i realise i’m something of a niche, but i think i’ve just convinced myself to pre-order the ep3 lol
davide
11 months ago |+1
YouDidntDidYou
11 months ago |@Frosti
hasn’t the Sony NEX VG10 been a total failure “a massive sales flop with many mainstream retailers withdrawing it from shelves” EOSHD.com
SPF
11 months ago |I agree, don’t care so much about AF speed. I am waiting for the NEX C5/7. I like using manual lenses, so peaking will be a huge plus with those. Also I like the magnesium construction of the NEX-5. So much more solid than the E-P1 I’ve used.
Dummy00001
11 months ago |Re marketing. Recently has seen the insightful TED video about marketing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4
om-4
11 months ago |Hey Frosti, did Pablo put a Sony to your head?
frosti7
11 months ago |LOL, no, i’m seriously wasnt happy with my GH1 output, i love m43 so much but the output just didnt match what i was gettin from aps-c,
i’ve sold my m43 gear and now i’m depressed
Jim
11 months ago |I wonder why Oly doesnt just use a sony APS-c sensor in there cameras – just use the center 12Mpix – and you can do the multi aspect thing for 16:9 3:4 2:3 etc etc… would make for better IQ…. and higer res in 19:9 modes… could even go true 1:1 mode…. just drop the pixel data from outside the image circle….
Maybe have a image circle PLUS mode – use more than the format spek 17mm width- I’m shaw the leses will project a slightly bigger than spek image circle – and yes the IQ will rapidly drop but if ist an option you can always turn it off and it might allow a 28mm equiv lens to go edge out to a 24mm equiv lens all be it with poor/reduced edge quality….
The Sony, Olympus love child….
Joey
11 months ago |not to sure about the technical stuff as it’s not my strong point but iirc it’s far more complicated than just cutting the middle out of a sensor and re-attaching the wires, and the amount spent retro-fitting a larger sensor could match what would be spent designing a new one, though with the caveat above that i don’t know a huge amount about this stuff
davide
11 months ago |I think the problem with this solution is their IBIS hw would need to be completely redesigned. I suspect that is also for a similar reason they didn’t go to the new 16MP sensor from Panny.
IBIS is nice from a user perspective, but correctly designing it for the sensor shape, weight (even temperature!) it’s tough.
Not to mention the larger size of the body.
Regarding your tricks to have wider lenses, they would probably not work for several reasons, vignetting from lenses and mount being the likely most severe.
But I’d actually be very happy with such a thing. I was hoping that Nikon would make it, since they are designing the system from scratch (thus vignetting can be designed around) and they already have APS-C technology
Space
11 months ago |Who the hell in the marketing departement decided to put an orientation sensor only on the E-P3 and not on the E-PL3 and E-PM1???
That is what I call marketing b***s**t!
This is pityful. My old Canon Ixus 55 from 2005 had one.
Same with Panasonic who decided to leave out stereo audio from the GF3… when my Lumix TZ7 from 2009 had it.
I want to upgrade from my compact, and those two points are no-go for me.
Sony is not so cheap with their customers and I think I will get a NEX-C3 or a NEX-5.
720p vs 1080i is a smarter differentiation if you ask me.
Al
11 months ago |Olympus wanted to steal Panasonic and Sony’s marketing thunder, and hopefully suppress the sales of their products.
Products in the pipeline are the lifeblood of the tech industry. Once a product is on the shelves, it is old news. While it is in the pipeline, you can play the expectations game (think Apple, Fuji X100). That is what Olympus is doing. “I think I will hold off buying that GF3 until I see the new Olympus. “
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |That only works with dramatically improved or different or groud-breaking products. Incrementalism and half-baked me-too products don’t freeze sales to competitors. Few companies can do it successfully.
Microsoft built a monopoly by “announcing” vaporware products and squeezing out the competition. Luckily, they can’t do anything right anymore.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Moreover, it can backfire badly. If your product is perceived to be “not really much different, but not available for weeks” then people get motivated to buy your competitor’s instead, because they can get it now. This is ESPECIALLY true in certain buying periods: father’s day/graduation, summer vacation, Christmas. Thus, you don’t want to do anything less than a slam dunk launch in May, June, July, August, November, or December.
Al
11 months ago |I don’t think their target audience is that sophisticated.
YouDidntDidYou
11 months ago |The target market that Olympus is after aren’t too fussed about how many frames per second a camera can shoot and will never probably switch to using continuous shooting mode…
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |You mean I wasn’t successful at building multiple multi-million dollar hardware startups? How many multi-million dollar businesses have you built or run? My total is six so far.
Tropical Yeti
11 months ago |With all those multimillion dollar bussinesses under your hat, why on earth did you drop them then? To write comments on 43rumors forum?
Corvair
11 months ago |LOL!
If I rmemeber right one of those multimillion dollar businesses was the little Connectix Quickcam. The company later hot bought out by Logitech for $25 million. But Thom had little to do with the running of Connectix.
But 5 others? Where’d he have the time after spending years teaching at a community college (if I remember), and then being a photo editor at OUTSIDE magazine in the late 90s. Funny, you’d expect someone allegedly with successful Silicon Valley startup experience to somehow choose something other than a comparatively low wage editor job.
…..or a job leading expensive photo tours of Africa, which he does now in addition to selling his own Nikon manuals……. Very curious.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Your comments (and others) would be more worthwhile if they actually had facts in them. I did not teach at a community college, I taught filmmaking at Indiana University while working on my PhD in the 70′s and before I went home to Silicon Valley. I was not photo editor of Outside magazine, I ran Backpacker magazine, which was a $20 million dollar business that included magazine, Web site, and TV show. As for your contention about Connectix, when I joined the company to run product development AND marketing, it was a US$5m/year company with a modest profit. When I left four years later it was a US$64m/year company with a large profit. I did exactly what I was hired to do.
fta
11 months ago |OH SNAP!!!!
It so fun to see all the b!tching on this forum. Some of you are worse than PMSing women! One day Olympus brings out new cameras, everyone is like, oooh and ahhh, good for you Oly!!! Then only a couple of days later, everyone is like DIE OLYMPUS!! You don’t deserve to breath the same air as me!!! How dare you Olympus!!111!1! OMG, why you no build kamera to MY personal specs and opinions?!?
Bunch of quacks! Yup, your right, Oly, Pany and the m43 consortium should just go away and DIE, only Sony and Samsung are allowed to exist..
P.S. I wasn’t commenting on you Yeti
I just liked your reply.
ijack
11 months ago |You obviously don’t know who Thom is, do some homework
fta
11 months ago |We all know who Thom is.. A Nikon bigot. A successful millionaire that created the now striving Osborne computer, ooops, my mistake, it went bankrupt… hmmm.. Oh wait, he developed GO’s penpoint or was he just an evangelist? btw, evangelist is just a nice word for bigot. He designed the Quickcam? Must have been the connectix version.
Sounds like he is just a normal ‘man’, not a ‘God’ like some of you think.
Hey people, pull your heads out of yer butts!
SteveO
11 months ago |You’ve got issues, fella. Precisely what have you accomplished?
Vlad
11 months ago |Seriously!
Neonart
11 months ago |I understand where Thom is coming from, but I do agree with Ab and Thomas.
Basically if you have the EP3 at $899 with all that customization and dual dials, then an EPL3 with one less dial and less customization at $699 for example, and the EPM1 for $499 with the simplest interface for newbies, the price with make the decision for the entry level market and the level of control will do it for those actually interested in photography.
My main concern is that Olympus needs to get their high-end products in stores and on the shelves. You go to Wolf Camera, for example, and theres one EPL1 sitting in the corner shelf while Sony, Nikon, and Canon get the other 95% of the displays.
Like Apple did as they made their come-back, get some reps out in force at the Best-Buys, Wolfs, Calumets, Dodds, Costco, whatever! Just make sure you can display and defend your product!
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |Apple made deals with BestBuy et al, by demanding dedicated display space and knowledgable sales staff. Apple even took the extra step of training staff, that not only had some product knowledge, but also made sure that all the macs on display were actually up and running! That had been a big problem with previous agreements.
Neither Panasonic nor Olympus are the first names that come to mind when thinking about cameras. Nikon and Canon are. Apple was the only true competitor to the Microsoft juggernaut. Generic box-stuffers didn’t and don’t count there, they were all partners with MS… maybe hostage is more accurate.
Neonart
11 months ago |“Neither Panasonic nor Olympus are the first names that come to mind when thinking about cameras.”
Neither was Apple when it came to computers in the mid-nineties until about 2001 when OS10.1 was released! I was there. Dell was the thing. So was HP, Alienware, and (gasp) eMachines! As an Apple user from ’93-to present let me tell you, there where lots of folks like Pablo then if you ever said you had a Mac! Things changed.
If companies get with the program and start getting their marketing and strategies in order they can succeed even if they are not the mainstream choice. There are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of potential customers. You don’t need to be Nikon or Canon to succeed.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Best Buy will be happy to sell you shelf space. Sony just bought end caps in the camera departments for the NEX models, so you’d have Olympus trying to out-bid Sony. Here’s the thing: Sony wields clout elsewhere in the store. They can and do say “rent us those THREE end-caps for different product lines.” Olympus cannot do that. Panasonic might be able to do that if they’d get their act together in the US.
But I’m not holding out for an Olympus victory here. My understanding is that OlympusUSA just cut back on marketing/sales staff. They seem to be in money-saving mode, not money-spending mode.
cL
11 months ago |Then they don’t know what they’re doing. You can spent millions on R&D, but if you don’t spend money on marketing to push that extra mile to get the product sold, all the R&D cost is considered sunk cost. Case closed.
davide
11 months ago |What about Samsung? Samsung products are everywhere, but I haven’t seen yet a NX camera anywhere (for real, I’ve seen pictures on the web).
Given Samsung aspiration (and good reviews that people, including you, gave them), I am interested in trying the thing, but nisba!
Anonymous
11 months ago |I’m waiting for the Leica end space at Best Buy. I hear they have a mirrorless camera on the market that revolutionized the world.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |I don’t disagree with the positions of the three cameras they’ve got so much as the fact that they’ve got six things they’re juggling, most of which are alike. The problem for Oly is that they’ve still got plenty of inventory of the last model in the pipeline at the moment. So that E-PM1 will NOT sell for US$499 unless they clear out the E-PL1/2 first. It’s more likely we’re going to see US$899 (P3), US$699 (PL3), and US$599 (PM1), or even closer pricing. In that scenario, the PL3 looks better than the P3 and PM1, I think.
Neonart
11 months ago |Agreed. They should get some crazy discounts going on the leftover EP2s and EPL1s, and at the cost of pissing off some EPL2 buyers, they should drop the bottom on those too, and get their new products out priced more competitively.
Also some incentives for lenses would be great. (Nikon is great at that.) Buy any Oly camera get $200 MIR towards the 12 f2 (or 75-300), or $100 towards the 45 f1.8 (or 40-150 or 17)! Don’t just launch a bunch of products out, get people to notice them and actually buy them.
Ab
11 months ago |But Thom, the older models sell for lower price points. They use these bodies to get more people into the system. They are saturating the market to get as many sales as they can.
Having older models they can discount and even treat as loss leaders while enticing others with shiny newer models works.
As you have mentioned, they dont have big marketing budgets, and couldnt compete with Nikon, Canon, Sony, Samsung for dollar value. Their strategy is to stay ahead and get people on the system using any means they can, which right now is flooding the market with models that have visually different appeal, and a scale of price points.
Ab
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |The problem with those lower price points is that they establish an expectation. Here in the US, the E-PL1 is now a US$399 camera with lens on sale ($499 not on sale). Because we’ve had an extended string of that now, if the E-PL3 comes out way above that, which I think it will, there will be price resistance. The “same sensor” problem just exacerbates this, because when you evaluate the products from image quality/features, basically Olympus may end up telling people that a pivot LCD costs US$300. In essence, Olympus is now competing with itself: buy a cheap camera today or wait and pay US$200-300 for a pivoting LCD and faster AF (which are the first and fifth things on the E-PL3 marketing checklist on their US site; it’s illustrative to note the different order they use for the Lite and Mini for the same features, by the way).
Ab
11 months ago |But again, when you talk about establish an expectation you are talking about people who are making fully informed decisions not P&S upgraders.
The reduction in pricing is a good thing, as these are systems. A bunch of upgraders will buy the EPL 1/2 and stick, they will get the additional lenses, buy an accessory etc. Many will move on to a Sony product or a Panasonic product in the same way people buy a T2i then decide Nikon will give them the better pictures.
Companies compete with themselves all the time Thom, I know you know this, it can be very smart. Because the consumer is choosing between an EPL1/2 pricepoint and look with a splash of featureset, an EPM1 pricepoint and look (and it does look so much better) with a smattering of features, and an EPL3 pricepoint look and featureset. But the overall picture is they are choosing between olympus products, on the one end they are choosing on price, then on appearance, then on specs.
Ab
Andyoz
11 months ago |Agree with that Thom. I dont understand why there are still E-PL1 models still out there. Its been 6 months since the E-PL2 came out so I dont understand why they would be still selling the E-PL1. They should have cleared out the inventory months ago.
Its interesting looking at the E-PL2 – in a way I think it is the best looking design (better than the E-P3) – just personal I know. If it had the same controls as the E-P2 I think this would have been a perfect E-P3 camera. Thats why I could see it being confusing for alot of shoppers. There is no continuity. Imagine if a retail store has the E-PL1, E-PL2 and E-PL3 and try to explain the upgrades for each model. It would get confusing for alot of customers (I am not talking about ‘us’ here).
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Well, they’re still selling the E-PL1 because they either brought too many into the country and/or didn’t market/sell them well enough. Both are problems. And the likelihood is that the E-PL2 is in the same boat, so we’ll have strong overlap of the models again. The difference is that the E-PL3 has a tilt LCD and faster AF. So what’s the cost differential that suggests? In essence, their tactics are causing them to compete against themselves, and in a way that erodes gross profit margin. That’s one of the problems with “iterate until you get it right.”
Paulus
11 months ago |No matter what happens – the Olympus imaging division has to be criticized (… not only by Thom Hogan).
They can take the lead in the mirror-less market with the world fastest autofocus, they can develop the fastest and best performing lenses, provide an outstanding investment protection for their loyal customers (my more than 30 years old OM-lenses can be used with the new E-P3!), be extremely innovative with new E-system components and accessories (new compact RC-flashes) and win all prizes in industrial design – there is always a need to criticize and to bash the company.
In the past Olympus has been criticized for its ambiguous FT- and MFT-roadmap.
Now, they have changed their communication policy and provide directness and transparency in their marketing strategy. This is called a “marketing mistake” instantly.
There must be some deeper reasons for this permanent and chronicle “professional” attempts to damage the reputation of the Olympus imaging division.
Perhaps it’s difficult to accept that “the innovative David beats sleeping Goliaths” – a painful confession to those who are addicted to the feeding troughs of the big players in the imaging industry.
Pablo
11 months ago |Paulus,
try to shoot with your OM lenses on the NEX.
You will NOT want to come back to the 1:2 crop low DR m4/3 sensor again.
Paulus
11 months ago |Dear Pablo,
I tried the Nex – not with OM-lenses but with the Sony original lenses.
I like the 1:2 crop factor of the FT/MFT sensor very much.
But I’ didn’t like the ergonomics of the Nex.
Pablo
11 months ago |Great for you,
that you like lenses that are mad from carbon plastic glass and not real silicium glass with (now forbidden) lead or radioactive elements like the old legacy stuff I love…
So wish you much fun in enjoying all the lens designs full of compromises caused by the need for the lens to be small, that are then “compensated” by digital corrections…
I guess, you can start shooting stuff with a phone camera or P&S now, too.
Bob B.
11 months ago |Pablum….did someone say Pablum?
Paulus
11 months ago |Certainly!
A growing number of award winning pictures were shot with phone cameras or P&S.
The most exciting high quality DSLR-pictures are never made -
Because the big and heavy High-end-DSLR was left at home!
Neonart
11 months ago |This is your problem Pablo.
You can bash and complain about the 4/3 system all day and your right.
But when an intelligent individual like Paulus says I’ve tried your alternative and didn’t like it you can’t accept it.
You have to bash that too with comments like “great for you, that you like lenses that are mad from carbon plastic glass and not real silicium glass”, and “wish you much fun in enjoying all the lens designs full of compromises caused by the need for the lens to be small, that are then “compensated” by digital corrections”. Just bitter, childish stuff.
Unless you work work for Sony (which would make sense), you come across as a troll and a jerk. Do you walk up to people in parking lots that own cars different than yours and tell them their cars suck? How would that come across?
Bob B.
11 months ago |…if everyone just ignores Pablum…he will go away because he feeds on saying stupid things here to cause controversy. If we don’t react to his stupid stuff…he won’t bother us any more!
Dummy00001
11 months ago |> I guess, you can start shooting stuff with a phone camera or P&S now, too.
Here you go: http://vimeo.com/13081827
P.S. Pablo, you are so lame. Get a life. Go outside, take you camera with you and make some pictures. And enjoy it!
Anonymous
11 months ago |Dear Dummy00001,
Thank you very much for your link!
http://vimeo.com/13081827
It’ s must have seen and really funny!
Paulus
11 months ago |Dear Dummy00001,
Thank you very much for your link!
http://vimeo.com/13081827
It is a must have seen and very funny!
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |You must admit, the NEX5′s LCD is wonderful! The rest? MEH
Good ergonomics, physical controls and user interface, plus a wide variety of native lenses add up to a whole lot more than a bigger sensor. All those reasons added up to my buying a GH2.
dsdsdds
11 months ago |well obvioulsy olympus IS doing something wrong.
otherwise SALES would not be down the drain…..
Vlad
11 months ago |I only see constructive critics here. You use the word bashing way to freely.
- Olymous took the lead in the mirrorless market and… let its advantage go away. They wasted the momentum.
- While I would agree that Olympus makes great lenses, there are plenty of exceptional lenses out there.
- Industrial design prizes are for industrial designers.
- “now, they have changed their communication policy and provide directness and transparency” – can you please specify what do you mean by that?
Most of the people here seem to just want a good camera. So, Olympus addresses plenty of issues, improves AF and whatnot, all of which is great, but then provides 3 times the same model and the same sensor! How ridiculous is that? Look at the improvements in APS-C sensors – the new 16MP from Sony and the 18MP from Canon. And they can’t make a 12MP 43 sensor with some decent DR??
Miroslav
11 months ago |“There’s surprisingly little differentiation in key features of the three cameras.”
Agree – they haven’t learned anything from E-P1/2 / E-PL1/2 lack of differentiation.
“Olympus’ press releases and Web sites aren’t much help in differentiating the models”
And the specs are not complete for some – FL-300R for example. I’m interested, but will it have Super FP mode? Will there be a black version?
All this is maybe the consequence of delays caused by the earthquake, I guess E-P3 should have been shown in April.
Gianni Galassi
11 months ago |Some 43rumors regulars perhaps recall the enthusiastic way I acknowledged the new-born format (Micro Four-Thirds) as the Third-Millennium Leica. After ditching my APS-C DSLR system, I first bought myself a Panasonic GF1, a reliable and well enough built camera, reasonably priced and blessed by a good quality lens lineup. Then I switched to Olympus EP2, a better jpg performer fitted with a far better (although optional) electronic viewfinder. Not that we are talking about a flawless camera, as I pointed out in my blog, but it was reasonable to expect the launch of a more accomplished and pro-oriented Panasonic or Olympus Micro 4/3 camera within the end of 2010. So I considered an upgrade as forthcoming, and was prepared to this new expense.
Except that now this prediction turns out to be wrong: as of June 2011 there is no pro-oriented Micro 4/3 camera looming on the horizon. Panasonic has decidedly lowered the target of its GF lineup, whereas Olympus seems to be hesitating about what to do in the future. So Micro 4/3 enthusiasts feel like their favorite (and only) brands are simply dumping them. And perhaps they are right. In the meantime rumors follow one another in the Net -and unfailingly turn out to be untrue- about new EVIL systems to be introduced by Nikon or Canon or you-name-it. Pentax’s Q system is a joke, and the newly introduced Olympus bodies are nothing but an attempt to compete with Sony NEX cameras or the recent Panasonic GF2 and GF3 models by simply changing the skin around what basically appears to be the same product. Shortly, the Third-Millennium Leica seems to be getting a serious stalemate.
Fuji, it’s your turn. The X100 is a promising trial balloon. Next thing is an interchangeable lens system based on the X100 body and EVF. Next thing will be the promise of a more accomplished pro-oriented unit. And next-next thing will be disappointing customers’ expectations.
Daemonius
11 months ago |Cause Olympus isnt Sony, I would advice them to keep it to three levels. Low-end E-PL3, mid-range E-P3 and high end PEN pro camera. Plus even Sony stoped producing countless models now. Basically they have A33 (A35 soon), A55, A580 and A900. Plus three NEXes.
And anyway, theres big difference between Olympus and Sony marketing. Sony is really good in that.. Olympus, well not so much.
MacT
11 months ago |Panasonic went in totally different direction that i’d been hoping for. When I saw GF1 I was excited – the future seemed bright for m4/3. When I saw GF2 I didn’t know what to think, that wasn’t the expected evolution from GF1 but strange compromise. With GF3 everything seem clear to me. I had some hopes for E-P3, but is it really so much more innovative from my E-P1 to replace it? At least the primes’ line looks good now, but prices are inadequate. I really don’t want to be next Pablo, but Panoly makes too much marketing and do not listen to people who put trust in m4/3. 3 years and still no camera that EVERYONE (I think that’s true, even if someone isn’t going to buy it) on this site is waiting for. GF Pro I hope – if not I’m not interested anymore.
Bob B.
11 months ago |I’m invested in the Panasonic side…(am definitely interested that 12mm lens tho!!!! Glad I didn’t purchase the Pany 14mm….this 12mm looks like a real lens)…and…standing by the sidelines and doing a little reading I just stood back and said…I don’t know which new Penn does what..?
Thom is correct there. And…to have the flagship camera with a lower frame rate is just downright stupid…no? I think the Olympus cameras are good cameras…but the company seems very confused.
I have a GF1 and I don’t like the new Panasonic cameras (Except the GH2…because it shows improvement…not gimmicks)…but the Panasonic line is well defined…each camera is directed at an buying audience. I think Olympus missed that part?
Neonart
11 months ago |Actually Bob, it’s quite easy if a GF1 replacement is what you are looking for. Your choices are:
EP3- Retro metal body, 2 dials, lots of customization.
EPL3- 1 Dial, less customization.You get a tilt screen in lieu of the retro-design and metal body.
EPM1- No dials. Much simpler.
GF3- Somewhere between EPL3 and EPM1.
All 3 get you the same image quality and speed which is a good thing. If FPS or a tilt screen is your most important parameter, the EPL3 looks like a really good option. I assume FPS matters very little to most in this segment besides spec buyers.
Things will get very interesting when Panny releases a GF Pro, and Oly releases a Pen Pro.
Bob B.
11 months ago |Yeah…I am definitely not buying another body until I see the Panasonic GF Pro..
I doubt that I would go Oly because I do not want to learn another menu system. I have a Canon 5D Mark II and GF1 and a bunch of lenses…I just want to stick with two menu systems…
The GF3 is useless for me…I don’t want a touchscreen and I DEFINITELY have to have a viewfinder…but that camera is targeted at point-and-shoot people who want a better camera.
Not me. (The EP3 would be the best in the bunch at this point) The GH2 is also a good camera but too Videocentric for me…. I am strictly a still shooter.
Space
11 months ago |Who in the marketing departement decided to put an orientation sensor only on the E-P3 and not on the E-PL3 and E-PM1?
This is pathetic. My old Canon Ixus 55 from 2005 had one.
Same with Panasonic who decided to leave out stereo audio from the GF3… when my Lumix TZ7 from 2009 had it.
I want to upgrade from my compact, and those two points are no-go for me.
Manual controls, touchscreen, articulated screen, video codec, body size, EVF are OK differentiation features if you ask me… But orientation sensor? Stereo? This is really strange.
And when you factor in the price, it’s really cheap from both Olympus and Panasonic to omit such basic consumer features.
FlamingJune1967
11 months ago |Space:
You are 100% correct! I might sound like a broken record on this subject, but I already have a VF-2 and REALLY wanted to like the E-PL3… however, the lack of an Orientation Sensor is insulting.
I took a couple of hundred photos in the past few days – half of which were in portait orientation. If I had to manually rotate 100 photos, I would be seriously upset. Not because I am lazy, but because even my daughter’s el-cheapo point and shoot has an OS sensor on it!
It’s like buying a $400 microwave without a popcorn button.
Or a $1000 washer without a hot water option.
Or a 2011 LCD television with only one HDMI connection.
Zörg
11 months ago |Seems like I’m the only one who thinks Oly was smart
First of all, announcing products several months in advance has been Nikon’s marketing strategy for many, many years; not saying it’s the best strategy, but at least it doesn’t ruin a company. And indeed, Oly is a bit in the same situation vs. Pana+Sony as Nikon vs. Canon, so it’s not surprising that they adopt similarly-early announcements.
So, why announcing the E-P3 now? Because it’s ready, and it’s necessary to announce it before Sony’s next high-end body (which is likely getting announced soon).
Why announcing the E-PL3 and the E-PM1 now? To compete with GF-3 and Nex-C3 announcements. In this category, buyers are attracted to brands that they perceive as dynamic; doesn’t really matter if the specific model reference is available, they don’t want to buy a brand that they perceived as less interested in their budget class because the last announcement in this category is older than the others.
Will it lower the E-PL1/2 sells? Probably not, because most people are buying now for summer holidays and cannot wait. It might even increase the sells because Oly will be regarded as very active and competitive, and the flagship (E-P3) announcement can leverage sells of older models.
Joey
11 months ago |Though the strategy seems confused people are assuming that sale of the ep3 will be hit as there is more info out there now, it is possible that a customer may put off buying a ep3 thinking that the epl3 etc would be announced soon and may wait to see what it would be, now at least customers can make something of an informed decision (if they can decipher all the info correctly),and surely that is a good thing? Though as others here have run their own business i am willing to conceded that they know more about the dark arts of marketing than me (i am with Bill Hicks and believe that we would wake up in a better world if everyone who worked in advertising and marketing simply killed themselves overnight)
ijack
11 months ago |I think the average customer would react to marketing rather then an announcement, buying what they see in stores and in the advs, so actually this triple announcement is not confusing as it seems for everyone other then us who read into the system practically everyday, and most probably for people like us we will buy the E-P3 anyway.
When the E-P3 rush is finish, they release E-PL3 at a lower price point attracting a different set of customers, and later again, with E-PM1. Everything kind of make sense.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |Let’s not entirely re-write history. The products Nikon tends to introduce in advance are the pro products. In recent years, that’s been the big model changeover of the D3/D300. The consumer products have been a different story. In almost every case the cameras have been available in less than 45 days after they were announced. Basically, the consumer models start production before announcement and announcement usually is the start of their distribution process to subsidiaries. The pro models are announced as they go into production for some reason, and that means there can be three month lags before they actually ship to customers. Not 100% sure why they do it that way, but that’s the way they’ve been doing it for a long time now.
Mr. Reeee
11 months ago |Maybe it’s a courtesy to pro customers?
Dropping a couple hundred bucks on a consumer camera is no big stretch.
Budgeting for a major, multi-thousand dollar camera (or cameras) purchase most likely requires some forethought, juggling and budgeting for pro users.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |> it’s necessary to announce it before Sony’s next high-end body
That doesn’t sound good ;~). You mean if they announce it after Sony announces a NEX-7 they won’t sell any E-P3s? That would indicate a product that is very weak, wouldn’t it?
It very well may be that Olympus tried to pick a time between other company announcements and decided to combine three upcoming cameras into that one announcement in order to make some noise by themselves.
ItsaChris
11 months ago |any idea on price?
EP-3 + lens – $899
EPl3 + lens – $699 ??
Epm1 + lens – $599 ??
EPl2 + lens – $399 ??
I am disappointed in the fact that the EPl3 will not be coming out for some time after the announcement. but If they had not announced the EPL3 and Samsung nx200/nx1000 does not come with a tilt screen I would have gotten a NEX.
Valk
11 months ago |This is the way I see what Olympus has done as far as marketing strategy is concerned.
Each new product they have announced contains the same image sensor as well as the exact same processor for 1 very big reason: they don’t want a consumer to feel left out as far as performance is concerned if they purchase an entry level product. A consumer who purchases an E-PM1 is going to get the same great quality of photo that the E-P3 can deliver and hence, there is no compromise in purchasing the cheaper unit on an imaging front.
However, there are some pretty big differences in performance between the units in terms of functionality, and their target markets. The E-PM1 is geared towards the fashion conscious, hence the different colours, smallest size and modern yet retro-ish look to their bodies. There are hardly any buttons on the back of the camera, and that is because this type of consumer is unlikely going to be mucking about with manual settings when they’re out socialising or clubbing with their ‘cool’ friends. I see this camera being a bit of a cult fashion product.
I see the E-PL3 geared towards the mummy and daddy shooters who are taking both video and photos of the little kid Jimmy playing little league soccer on the weekends. They will be the main user of the 5.5fps. The tiltable screen will aid in getting interesting video angles/stills etc. There’s a few more buttons on the back but the this consumer is still unlikely to use any of the manual modes.
The E-P3 is geared towards the seasoned shooter. There’s heaps of buttons on the back, as well as two custom function buttons to suit for the individual’s own shooting style. There’s only 3fps because this shooter is more likely going to take more time to compose their shot to the extent where it is unlikely that they shall require 3fps. This camera has the top dial for easy access to the manuals modes and more importantly, has the two back dials for easy manipulation of the shutter and aperture. This unit has the built in flash which means that if you want to use the viewfinder and trigger flashed remotely, you can do so, whereas you can’t with the entry level models. The screen is in a 3:2 ratio as opposed to the 16:9 of the E-PL3 and E-PM1 units – this is because the E-P3 is most likely to be used as a still image product and not a video product.
I think that the decision that a consumer makes in terms of the camera purchase shall solely be defined but their own lifestyle as well as their own shooting prowess/habits. I actually quite like what Olympus have done in making the entry level unit have the same imaging quality as the high end models. Anyhow, that’s my two cents worth.
Joey
11 months ago |Mostly agree with you, however I still don’t understand the 3fps limit on the ep3, maybe the reasons will become apparent later on when the other cameras are released and reviewed, but at the moment i am just confused.
Marq
11 months ago |The difference is purely due to parts. The oly release mentioned a new shutter to go with the new bodies. one could easily sugget that the new part doesn’t fit into the current epx design. Obviously justifying this decision is difficult but then we are not expecting spee demons from these cameras. This is despite the new lower models being as fast as my e5.
And ghom
Joey
11 months ago |Yeah thats kinda of what i was getting at, and i wonder if the new shutter has some draw back that may impair the ep3, as surely if it could fit into smaller bodies it shouldn’t be a problem squeezing it into to ep3?
Neonart
11 months ago |I agree with you Valk. This is exactly how I see it too.
IB
11 months ago |Great post by Thom, I Agree 100%.
I think Panasonic is doing great work in R&D, they seem to be a step ahead at the moment. They have the advantage of producing every part of their camera themselves…
JeremyT
11 months ago |Slightly off topic but I followed the link to the 45mm lens and it’s the #15 best selling lens on Amazon at the moment! Not bad for a product that won’t even be out for 3 more months! The 12mm is also doing well at #19.
Aside that, the Panny 20mm is #7 too!
You know there’s a lot of doom and gloom about Olympus’ choices, but I really think they’re on the right track here, and I’m sorely tempted to pre-order an E-P3 right now.
Schneider
11 months ago |Hey Thom – still waiting for your Great American mirrorless!
Has (mega-tax-cheat) GE contracted you to do their marketing?
napalm
11 months ago |the youtube interview by whatdigitalcamera with an Olympus Europe rep was pretty staightforward. they are introducing the line-up calling the 3 bodies as classic (E-P3), Light (E-PL3) and Mini (E-PM1).
go watch it, i though it was pretty good. though it did not touch on specs, it shows who they are targeting with each model.
i’m sure gearheads like us wont appreciate the Apple-like approach, but the typical consumer will.
Wolfgang
11 months ago |Indeed. The Olympus marketing is spot on. This is the first time I thought there is finally good enough reason to invest in m4/3 system.
Personally I am most attracted by the coming fast prime lenses that look like a ‘real’ lens and also small enough to be in proportion to the camera body unlike the Sony NEX system. It would be great if they retained the multi function ring in the front as found at present in the XZ1 (or Canon S95). My thought is get the 2 fast Olympus prime lenses and the cheapest body that handles alright now. Then add another body next year that might even be better by then.
Steve
11 months ago |I used to work in a camera shop and I can say that many compact camera buyers are fairly clueless as to what is available – overwhelmed by choice it seems and largely ignorant of the technical differences. They have no idea what is coming at all.
I’m sure many of us get asked for advice. I remember explaining the differences between (IIRC) an LX3 and G10 to a friend who then bought the Canon because “it is a Canon”. Gah.
So I don’t think Oly have made a mistake at all. I think Thom is a little bit too convinced of the power of Oly’s press releases. Oly isn’t Apple.
In fact, I welcome their decision to announce all three. Buyer remorse is a terrible thing to associate with a brand so cognoscenti can avoid it and the rest can enjoy the bliss of ignorance. Well done Oly !
Danonino
11 months ago |95% of the intended customer will not know that there is a new model coming. They will know when they see it in the store, not before. Because, we who hang around photo-forums and photo rumors sites and know what is going to happen are extremely few
Dragphoenyx
11 months ago |agreed…
Tobias W.
11 months ago |I also don’t think Olympus has much to worry about. No dealer will actually start promoting or informing customers walking into their store about the new models until they can actually sell them. Dealers want to get rid of their stocks of E-PL1s and E-PL2s first. Most consumers still ask friends on Facebook or just walk into an electronics retail store and see what’s on the shelves.
And seriously, follow @getolympus on Twitter and take a look at the tweets they’re retweeting. There still seem to be tons of people buying E-PL1s.
Of course the above doesn’t apply to anybody hanging around on this site…
I will wait until the end of the year to see about the GF Pro and whatever Olympus will release to combat that one.
Thom Hogan
11 months ago |> No dealer will actually start promoting or informing customers walking into their store about the new models until they can actually sell them
That’s correct. They’ll sell them a US$399 E-PL1 instead. ;~)
Nathan
11 months ago |I think it’s shameful that the E-PL2 is a better camera than the E-PL3 from a feature standpoint (focus refinements notwithstanding). The E-PL2 has wireless flash control and a built in flash, the E-PL2 has an orientation sensor. The only thing that the E-PL3 brings is tilting LCD.
I had wanted an E-PL2, now I’d have to spend 899 US to equal the feature set of the E-PL2 with the faster AF.
Why not build the E-P3 and the E-PL3 and keep the E-PLX feature set? Who knows. It seems like Olympus is just throwing models at a wall to see which sticks.
My bet is that it’ll be whichever is cheapest. E-PM3 if that one’s 499-550 US.
Do
11 months ago |AFAIK the E-PL2 has no orientation sensor, while the E-PL3 has wireless flash control, and the add-on flash acts like a built-in flash.
Michael Meissner
11 months ago |I believe the E-PL3 and E-PM1 will not have the orientation sensor, but the E-P3 will.
AndyOz
11 months ago |Thom
I was just thinking about the potential of Fuji joining M4/3. I read an interview with one of their managers talking re-joining the interchangeable lens business with one of their own products.
Do you think that it’s likely that it will have a micro 4/3 mount?
I also saw on your website where you said that such a unit has been prototyped and tested. It will interesting to have a third manufacturer in the system.
cL
11 months ago |Just noticed a few stuff. I noticed the three new lenses have no bayonet mount for lens hood…. I went to Amazon’s preorder page to see how the hood is mounted. Yes, they can accept hoods, but look like it’s a push-on type (better than screw on type, but worse than bayonet type). At least they can accept hood or this would be a deal breaker (especially for 12mm, because it is an ultra wide angle).
Anyways, look at the description on Amazon, look at how 45mm f1.8 is marketed:
“Great for tracking a moving child or pet”
I think that statement says enough. Most of the photographers who buy entry-level DSLR/mirrorless cameras are for kids and pet photography (and that’s the kind of photos I often had to review while I was the assistant at an entry-level photography class). They’re not interested in technical stuff like aperture or learning how to process RAW or read histogram.
Dana Curtis Kincaid
11 months ago |I pre-ordered an EP3 at Roberts in Indianapolis last week. Silver. I can usemy 12-60 on it, and that’s what matters to me.
Oh, and hello to the non-native anglish writing CANIKON trolls here. What are u so afraid of? If not for Oly and Panasonic you’d have no dust removal system, no art filters, no small interchangeable-lens mirrorless cams. There would be p/s and DSLRs with flat-color jpgs.
Spartacus
11 months ago |I forget. Does the E-P3, E-PL3 and E-PM1 have the worlds fastest auto focus? What was that reason I wanted a DSLR for again? I must be getting old and senile, can’t remember anything these days. Damn, this $10,000 600mm lens is getting heavy. I sure hope someone will buy it off me before it becomes obsolete like my old P&S digital camera.