Another “meet an Olympus rep guy” rumor :)

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For the series “an Olympus rep guy told me” here is the next non reliable rumor via Dpreview forum. RoAlmeida write: “When I was in Tokyo a couple weeks ago, I spoke to Oly’s sales rep from a famous camera store. Seems more likely the next steps are upgraded PENs with IBIS+EM5’s sensor next month – including a nice rangefinder/EVF surprise. The 43s line should continue with ‘high-end’ bodies arriving in Q3/2013 only. But it should bring a competitive tech package – including a new high-res Sony sensor that should make many FF users very jealous.

What makes me suspicious is that the PEN part of the rumor is exactly what I have posted weeks ago. While the second part related to a High End body I also posted here on 43rumors. The rep added two small info: Q3/2013 release and a mysterious (LOL) high-res Sony sensor.

I am still waiting for the day may come rep guys (from any manufacturer)! will really share a REAL info… :)

P.S.: I am pretty sure a higher than E-M5 m43 camera willa rrive early next year. Working on that rumor too!

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  • Peter

    I am doubtful that sales reps get the inside scoop, otherwise we would have much more info leaking out. I agree with you that the SR was most likely reading your site :)

    • Miroslav

      I guess the Tokyo rep knows more than those outside Japan…

      BTW, I guess some of admin sources are indeed sale reps.

  • nik

    hopefully there’s flip/swivel lcd

  • Camaman

    They menaged to squeze the new iBIS sensors into rangefinder formfactor?
    That alone would be agreat upgrade together with the OMD sensor.
    Built in EVF? Damn! That thing wold be packed.:-)
    No way it would remain the same size as E-P3

    • Miroslav

      +1

      It would be nice if that story is true. I don’t see why IBIS + EVF couldn’t be put in a NEX-7 size body ( which is about the same size as E-P3).

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/ amalric

        If true it will be a redefining moment for m4/3. Personally I think that the OM-D form factor is misleading. It encourages the notion of a dSLR-like device with big zooms.

        With a PL5 or P5 we are back to the original project: the Leica of the Poor, that even Fuji tried to emulate.

        My only worry is that it might be a fragile machine, having to put so much in a small shell.

        • mahler

          If the E-M5 form factor is so misleading, how comes that it is so successfull? m4/3 does not need any “redefinition”. It already has the ingredients it needs for its success.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/dontom/ DonTom

          Sure, I get the “misleading” call on the E-M5, but a lot of the EVF is contained in the “penta-prism” hump. It’s still “the bit you look into”.
          But personally, I’d rather have a rangefinder styled E-P5 than the E-M5. For one thing, Olympus usually do their new tech much better in the second iteration. I made that call when buying the E-PL1 over the E-P1, and have some very sharp images as a result. I I know really want the EVF in that corner, after living with the VF2 for 2 years.
          Also, I would rather wait for a high end camera that has a high end telephoto lens to match. That will only come with PDAF on sensor. I would love to have a 250/F3 m43 lens that handles birds in flight etc, and only such a product would have me shelling out the big bucks on a matching body. If an E-M6 can wear such a lens, I’ll put up with the EVF in the centre and own two cameras.

          • Esa Tuunanen

            > really want the EVF in that corner, after living with the VF2 for 2 years.
            If you want it crammed there without any effect to camera’s size it isn’t going to be as comfortable because you would have to cram eye very close to it.
            Just like exactly same viewfinder OLED screen is more comfortable in Sony A77 with its bigger viewfinder optics giving bigger image/eye relief than in NEX-7.

        • http://www.flickr.com/photos/montoablasa1/ quiquelbola

          “With a PL5 or P5 we are back to the original project: the Leica of the Poor, that even Fuji tried to emulate”.
          Am, I think That this is only your project.I don´t want to have a poor´s Leica imitation cam. I just want a hight quality system, small, versatile and portable with the best technology. In this system must be place for all types of cams, from basic ones to more sophisticated like GH 2 or OM D, or even pro ones, and of course all levels of lenses, basic but with good IQ and Hight level and expensive ones.
          I prefer Hight quality primes to zooms, it has more sense to me than big zooms, but…every person is a world.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/ulli/ Ulli

          I think Olympus still suffers from some kind of trauma from the intoduction of the E-300; the first “rangefinder” design in FT which the majority didn’t like because of the missing hump, they preferred one where you could see that there was actually a prism/mirror built in. From an ergonomic point of view, I prefer the viewfinder in the middle instead of the corner,but its not a dealbreaker for me.

          • Esa Tuunanen

            Problem of E-300 design was that it made optical viewfinder image even smaller.

  • Anonymous

    Rangefinder Oly ,.. Wow cool ,. Its good to take picture without having to leave my NOse Printed on the left side of the screen,.. Lol

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/dontom/ DonTom

      Fully agreed on the nose print issue!

  • http://www.43rumors.com/members/i-m-feoyon/ lnqo-M

    Maybe he rumors dude is realy and honest, but he Oly sales rep man is one of us, so read 43 rumors. 😀

  • Danny

    Not sure why FF users would be jealous of a new MFT sensor, given that Sony would use the same tech to build APS/35mm sensors. They have nothing to gain from providing new tech exclusively to MFT.

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/i-m-feoyon/ lnqo-M

      Aaaaaha i see, Sony will testing new tech on m43 first. 😀

  • Paul Alexander

    … Well then it woould be fun to call your blog… 43RUMORS would it ;)?

  • dg

    Thanks Miroslav. The guy might just’ve known something. It matches up with what admin says. If the next EP3 has an evf that will be very exciting.

    • stickytape

      From what I remember, if Admin is right, there will be no “next e-P3”?

  • nicwalmsley

    Olympus hardly knows if it will exist in “Q3, 2013”.

    A lot of rumors come from mangers bragging to their staff about their big plans for the next 12 months… Anything to keep the troops motivated.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/ amalric

    No it’s not my project. Apart from the E-M5 the most successful projects in 2012, according to the best reviewers were the NEX7 and the Fuji Pro 1, both RF-like.

    I don’t like the abuse of retro, so to me NEX7 design is the best. And despite the fact it has few lenses yet,and a so and so interface, it is the strongest contender to Olympus.

    Contrary to some of the clueless here I have handled all 3 cameras, so I know what I am talking about. There are some lost souls who dream to have a 4/3 dSLR substitute in the OM-D, but what they propose is just another loss of time.

    Meanwhile competition tries other best designs.

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/jules/ jules

      Given your well documented obsession for low budget gear, I don’t think any of the said NEX 7, OM-D or Fuji actually left the store. In fact, by “handling a camera” odds are on that hardly anyone believes you made any extensive tests to support your statements.
      You know, I don’t share the same worry that “handling a camera” constitutes a good enough experience for a field report or not 😉

      I only wish it would command a bit more prudence before stating bold sweeping statements…

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/ amalric

        Yes, I am against brainless consumerism, aren’t you? So I am not into the latest and greatest. Is it a sin in your country?

        I had a PL3 but preferred a P2. Is it a sin in your neighbourhood?

        Finally the thread is about Pens. I am glad I skipped the P3 and its sensor, which is the same of the P2, so I didn’t waste my money.

        Now can we go back discussing the thread, with your permission? 😉

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/jules/ jules

          Nothing wrong with simple living.
          Not that it warrants name calling nor brainless and ideologically driven reviews and much less the psychologicalization of a pretended sub group of users. But thats just my opinion.

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/ulli/ Ulli

      atually, a rangefinder design is also some kind of retro.

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/ amalric

        Hardly in the case of Sony, it having very modern ergonomics, and feeling v. good in the hand.

        Not only my O but LL’s too. It has other problems though, like the contextual menus.

        The Pen design had a sweeping success, so Olympus is not abandoning it. But it might rise on features to counter the NEX 7. It makes good sense.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/ulli/ Ulli

          yes i can understand that many people prefer modern ergonomics because it should be better than older ones, but unfortunately its also some kind of subjective thing. If I go back to an older compact sized mechanical slr like the OM-1 or MX they feel great, so why should a OM-D be different(once you setup the buttons to your personal liking)?

      • Esa Tuunanen

        Basically rangefinder is even more retro than SLR with rangefinders being the camera between world wars and SLR’s higher complexity preventing it from becoming equally practical and popular until well after WWII.

    • Bart

      Indeed, it is Olympus’ project, and one of their stated goals is to fully replace DSLRs with it when the technology has become good enough for this. No matter YOUR reason for using one of the different kinds of m4/3 cameras, the “project” was never about range-finder style cameras, nor does it in any way exclude them. It did however include replacing DSLRs from the start (primarily from a functional point of view, not so much from a shape/form point of view, BUT, if it is to be a replacement, which is a stated goal, it must be able to deal with bigger lenses also, because a long tele is going to be big).

      I wonder, since when is looks more important then function? Your argument about the NEX-7 only works when you ignore the actual purpose of the device, taking pictures, for which lenses are a somewhat mandatory accessory… I don’t know.. I don’t really care what my camera looks like as long as it: 1. does what I want from it, and 2. does so in a relatively convenient way (handling).

      With regards to that, I don’t have that much understanding for the ‘retro movement’, but unlike you, also nothing against it, as it is mostly irrelevant.

      I guess it is rather telling that you project your own wishes as ‘the project’, and have this unstoppable urge to spit on everything that you wouldn’t personally use. Is it really so totally impossible for you to consider more then your own specific needs when trying to figure out if something makes sense in general?

  • Patrick

    Ugh, I’m really tired of these postings about 2x 43 sensors and APS Fuji sensors being “better than full frame”. Full frame sensors are better *by design*. Size really, really matters for noise and dynamic range performance, and we sacrifice it for compactness when we choose mirrorless.

    We have to get over the fact that a 2x crop sensor is not going to beat any modern full frame sensor worth its weight in salt.

    • roger48

      For probably 90% of camera users, the fact that a FF sensor is slightly better than some other sensor has no relevance. They just want good quality pictures which they will get with any modern sensor. If we all followed the “bigger is better” argument, we would all be hauling around 10’x8′ cameras!

    • Bart

      An E-5 has a ‘full frame’ 4/3″ size sensor. What you mean is a ‘full frame’ 135 format sensor.

      Size matters, but 135 format sensors are not better by design.

      The sizes that matter are pixel size and (not really size, but directly related to it) fill rate.

      If you have a 4/3″ format and 135 format sensor with the same pixel density, using the same technology, they will produce the exact same noise level, but the 135 format sensor will have approx 4x the resolution.

      Now, if you are going to print on billboard size and then look at it from 30cm, that probably matters a fair bit. It also matters for ‘freedom of cropping’, but, at any normal print sizes, the difference has become pretty much irrelevant, but the higher resolutions come with the additional cost of needing more storage, more powerful computers for post-processing, being able to fit fewer pictures in a continuous shooting buffer, and taking longer to write pictures to a card.

      Most 135 format sensors trade resolution for higher pixel quality, but, if you’d increase pixel size to the same level on a 4/3″ sensor, you’d again end up with the same pixel level quality in ALL aspects (provided the same level of technology).

      Something like the D800 is somewhere inbetween, its pixels are approx twice the size of those of the E-M5’s sensor, and it also has approx twice as many pixels. Given approx the same technology, you’d expect this sensor to provide approx 1 stop better dynamic range and high iso performance, at approx twice the resolution.

      So… better depends on what you need.

  • JimD

    If a new Sony 4/3 sensor that is better (equal) than a 135 sensor is to actually exist, then Sony can put the same technology into a 135 sensor. Unless it is Oly technology and Sony is simply fabricating the hardware. The vanishing point of sensor size argument is almost here. The vanishing point of sensor size is when there is no perceived difference in sizes for normal visual use. For most that time is here now but the few the next generation should do. Then there are always some that need numbers rather than real results.

  • http://www.copperhead-design.com jeffharris

    So, an Olympus rep walks into a bar…

    Does anyone know the punch line? 😉

    • http://tmutzek.110mb.com/ TheEye

      So, an Olympus rep walks into a bar. He sists down next to a guy who is lovingly fondling a Pen and nursing a complimentary glass of water. “Hey,” says the Olympus rep, “That’s one of our cameras!” “I doubt that,” says the fondler, “This is a camera I have built myself from parts scrounged together at flemarkts- I call it the Olympus E-Pü or Extra Prole übercheap. Now buzz off, ignoramus.”

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/bean5y/ bean5y

      What happened to Mr Reeee?

      • caver3dt

        That is what I want to know. Jeff, what did you do with Mr. Reeee? You don’t have multiple personality disorder, do you?

        • http://www.copperhead-design.com jeffharris

          There’s nothing strange, about multiple personality disorder, is there? 😉

          Some days, I’m Mr. Reeee some days, not.

          • Mr. Reeee

            Don’t listen to him… 😉

            He was mumbling something the other day about not liking the way some people make idiotic statements online and hide behind equally idiotic handles. 😉

    • Boooo!

      An Olympus rep walks into a bar, carrying an E-x body with a SHG lens. He is promptly bludgeoned to death for being a wealthy heretic by a horde of discounted E-PL1 owners with 50yo Russian lenses.

      • caver3dt

        Now, that is just plain sick. –smile–

    • Stevey

      …at Photokina and hears a group of online experts arguing about who has the best camera system. He whispers to the barman, drinks up and leaves.

      Years later, an Olympus rep walks into a bar at Photokina and hears a group of online experts arguing about who has the best camera system. He whispers to the barman, drinks up and leaves.

      Many years later, an Olympus…. well you get the idea. The moral of the story ? Reps like to drink and spread rumors. Online experts like to argue. The bar is gearhead heaven. The barman is a rumor website.

  • http://alatchinphotography.com Ab

    The fact that Olympus has so many possibilities is what is exciting. As an owner of the EP2, EPL2 and EM5 I find the EP2 still a very comfortable camera to use while the EVF of the OMD can be useful I just throw on the VF2 on the other two bodies (whichever I have as a backup).

    I think an EVF in the EP3 would bug a lot of people, would the pricepoint accommodate it or would it remain at say around $799… Now, would that $200 price difference kill sales of the OMD?

    Not to be a bug, I dont think Olympus will build the EVF into the rangefinder, all the VF2s and VF3s they have sold would now be redundant for people upgrading their cameras (a waste of between 200 and 300). It also makes the PEN and OMD difference purely cosmetic.

    I would imagine the guts of the OMD sans EVF in a slightly newer form factor replacing the EPL3/EP3 with the accessory port and no weather sealing. Otherwise only the smallest PEN has any use for the VF2.

    It is a good plan to get rid of one of the pens, and I am most interested in a “pro” m43rds camera that can AF the HG lenses from Olympus with no compromises. Barring that an E-7 that brings a number of technological additions to the mix.

    Just to put this out there, I just did a video shoot for a client with the OMD, natural lighting (with a fill disc) and the the microphone adapter. So what could the E-7 include for the extra $$, and why would it be bought? Here are my hopes:

    E-3 form:

    Accessory port from micro line (or integrated EVF with Fuji style overlay for video or info)
    Headphone for sound out during video
    Better CAF and tracking (during mirror up)
    Higher FPS shooting (than the E-5)
    GPS
    Improved video settings (24p optional, high fps for slow mo ala Nikon mirrorless, better bit rate etc)
    Wireless shooting and tethering.

    Now I know a lot of the above is hopeful thinking BUT! Even with an improved PDAF system, the EM5 sensor and better video it would be a very compelling argument for professionals and enthusiasts alike.

    If they could get the full AF support in the m43rds mount it would be perfect for me. Olympus can eventually redesign the 43rds lenses in m43rds mount… but only once they have offered full support for their DSLR lenses. Barring that they will always have a body for those customers.

    • stickytape

      Don’t they have a history of making previous EVFs redundant with every release of new cameras?

      The differences between the E-M5 and a rangefinder-look camera is beyond cosmetic. As you have no doubt seen, some people like their viewfinders in the corner while others like it in the centre. Some also like the smaller size of the E-Px series, which is a matter of convenience and portability.

      • http://alatchinphotography.com Ab

        I think you mightbe surprised at how little difference there is in size between an OMD and an EP3.

        The fact that the new IBIS requires more space, and the accelerometers (sp?) are in the hump with EVF components suggests at least to me that in such a short time, they are not going to fit it all into a body the size of an EPL3.

        As for ergonomics, they vary from person to person. Also as far as I know, my VF2 works for my EP2, EPL2 and my OMD. Seems there is nothing redundant there at all.

  • http://www.martin-liebermann.de Martin Liebermann

    I really don’t understand all the hype about rangefinder styled digital cameras.

    I started photography with a fixed lens rangefinder, and switched to Nikon SLR gear when I was shooting professionally. I never owned an autofocus lens then. Later, but then only semi-professionally, I was happily shooting with the Cosina/Voigtländer rangefinders. The switch to rangefinder was due to the fact that I needed lighter gear, and also the availability of super wideangle lenses. I found the rangefinder helpful for one reason – the possibilty to see “outside the frame”, which was great for street amd people photography. But rangefinders are limited in their usefullness – even short range tele provided only a small frame, macro was impossible, and in no way I could preview DOF etc. Still, I loved rangefinder style shooting – because of its limitations to the essential.

    Now I’m a happy owner of the OM-D, and I enjoy the advantages of the EVF and the LCD screen. Both are great tools to pre-visualize the images I eventually will get on screen, much better than any rangefinder or SLR ground glass will show. Of course, the conception of the final image – post processing and eventually printed – is a skill I still need, and always try to refine.

    Except for the larger image size, I don’t really see any advantage of the SLR type OVF, and the rangefinder of my Bessa R even shows a smaller image than the OM-D (at above 35 mm). In low light, my EVF is much brighter then both, and even with MF lenses easier, quicker and much more precise to focus.

    The REAL advantage of ab optical viewfinder is somewhere else – it displays images in real time. EVF and liveview always have a significant electronic delay. The E-P2 really frustrated me. I always missed the split second window of catching the right moment. The delay was so big I could not anticipate it. I even put a klutzy old russian revolver style OVF on it …

    With the much quicker display of the OM-D, set to the high refresh rate, this problem is gone. For real world use, I see no reason any more to prefer an optical finder.

    • Anonymoose

      “rangefinder styled”

      You said it yourself :) People don’t want an ACTUAL rangefinder, they want a viewfinder on the left of the body so they don’t have to smear the LCD with nose grease.

      • http://www.ohb.no/foto Torstein

        I don’t want a left side viewfinder, as I use my left eye….

        • http://www.martin-liebermann.de Martin Liebermann

          Left eye shooter here, too. The black back of my Bessa has a shiny spot where my nose goes …

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/jules/ jules

        By tilting the head a bit forward and a bit to the left/right (depending on which eye) that nose problem is practically non-existent.
        example : http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/65241/101122219/stock-photo-male-photographer-taking-photos-with-dslr-digital-camera-101122219.jpg

        Observe dslr shooters, this is what they actually do most of the time, probably without thinking.

        • stickytape

          Exactly. A typical rangefinder viewfinder presents the same difficulty as an SLR for people who view with their left eye. It just so happens that the typical rangefinder is more comfortable for people who use their right eye. For left-eye viewers, your nose will be pressed up against the back of the camera either way, just in different spots.

          I think left-handed people have more to complain about.

  • http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/ amalric

    I spoke of Rangefinder-LIKE mirrorless cameras. Which BTW are the subject of this particular rumor. Can you not read?

    These are separate lines of product, the OM-D and the Pens.

    BTW EM-5 and dSLR owners would do well to ignore this thread, instead of being constantly OT. Have you ever heard of Netiquette in your tundras? LOL

    • Bart

      Its amazing how you are still incapable of properly using the reply links here. What post exactly where you referring to?

      Oh, and why does someone who talks about netiquette insist on name-calling and trash-talk?

  • admin

    Please Bart don’t offend anyone here.

    • Bart

      Hi Admin, sorry but I don’t think I’m actually the one trying to offend people here. Sure, some people are going to feel offended when pointed at their dubious behavior, but it is the regular trash-talking and name-calling by some people that is the offensive behavior here.

    • Esa Tuunanen

      And how about amalric?
      His behavior consists of constant disparaging and insulting of those who want real high end mirrorless alternative for Canikon DSLRs.

      Almost as if he doesn’t want Olympus and Panasonic to rise to challenge Canikon whose success comes from their strong control of DSLRs…
      Which we all know are eventually going to be mostly replaced by truly digital Single Lens Mirrorless cameras which offer lot lower mechanical complexity and constantly advancing performance of electronics.
      Canikon knows that but at the same time they have too much vested interest in their DSLR duopoly to do that change until absolutely necessary.
      Until that they can’t allow people to think mirrorless is anything else than that compact camera instead of equally serious full controls and ergonomics tool as higher end DSLRs. Especially they don’t want previously beaten competitors far ahead in transformation to mirrorless to make such cameras renewing their threat to Canikon.

      How fortunate for them amalric is here to insist Olympus and Panasonic to not offer anything which has high end controls and ergonomics.

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/7689141@N06/ amalric

        LOL I have neverenevernever been called a Canonikon shill before, especially since I have been a faithful Olympian for 5 yrs. and owner of two Oly dSLR cameras.

        One must be caareful with people who SEE things and unleash on you witch hunts and lynching parties- LOL

        Such a sweetheart…

        Best regards

        • Joe Schmoe

          Shill no. ASSHAT, yes!

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