(FT5) No new GH2 18 Megapixel multiaspect sensor for the Panasonic GF2
A fake GF2 created by blog.livedoor.jp
In an interview with DSLRmagazine Sven Dabelstein, Anne Guennewig and Monica Puértolas from Panasonic confirmed that the upcoming Panasonic GF2 will not have the new GH2 18 megapixel multiaspect sensor. They also said that they didn’t want to give that sensor to Olympus for the Olympus E-5 because “each firm should reserve a space to develop differentiated products with unique technologies.“. They cannot say now if the Micro F0ur Thirds 25mm f/1.4 will be a Leica labeled lens like the current Panasonic/Leica 25mm f/1.4 for Four Thirds. They are also playing with the idea to make Tilt-Shift lenses.
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stonebat
2 years ago |u gotta be kidding me. if gf2 loses to nex7, gh2 alone cant lift m43 ship…
spam
2 years ago |Sounds like they didn’t know what they were talking about. A sensor producer can’t keep a sensor for themselves long before other companies go somewhere else. Look at Sony, new sensors are always available for other customers.
simon
2 years ago |The problem is that there’s not a large market for 4:3 sensors. That means another sensor manufacturer is dependent on Olympus to buy their sensors and would likely require significant upfront commitment from Olympus. Panasonic knows this and can probably get away with a lot before Olympus jumps ship.
calxn
2 years ago |Yup, this is why m43 will be Olympus’ final coffin. Panasonic is proving to be an unreliable partner. They should have gone APS-C. Say whatever you want about the false hopes of the smaller m43 sensors, the fact that there is only ONE sensor maker shows how unwise Olympus is at business. With APS-C, there are many sensor makers, and they tend to have much more advance sensor technology than Panasonic. There are 8+ APS-C sensor makers. Olympus locked themselves in with one sensor maker whose sensor are not as good as the others and who is unreliable and unfair. Good going, Olympus! Bankruptcy awaits you. You deserve it. With your bankruptcy, m43 will start to falter and Panasonic will get a visit from karma. Even small teetering Leica saw the writing on the wall and went APS-C.
Miroslav
2 years ago |If ever Olympus decides to withdraw from camera making ( like Konica Minolta ) I bet Panasonic will buy their camera/lens division, just like Sony did with Minolta. So, no technology would be lost, but it’s still better to have two competing manufacturers.
Jonathan
2 years ago |….. shows how unwise Olympus is at business…..
sad but true.
Jonathan
2 years ago |Panasonic, on the other hand, does not cease to impress me.
4/3 makes all the sense in the world for them as it is very close in size to academy 35mm cine format (having a crop factor for 1.18 or so). The GH1, in many ways, is a best of breed product, Their new camcorder will be a huge success, and the GH2 will ride that wave and will prob. sell very nicely.
The GF2, I hope, will be a nice camera, and it looks like their lenses trump anything Olympus has released for m43.
Tobias W.
2 years ago |Excuse me? I don’t think that Olympus’ Zuiko Pro FT are anything less than beating the crap out of everything with a Panasonic label on it.
I bought a FT 25mm f1.4 from Panasonic recently. The lens had a bad front focus issue, I had to send it back to the dealer after Panasonic’s service didn’t even recognize the lens had a problem.
It’s a shame Olympus is so dependent on sensors from others as their lenses totally rock (in FT). There are no MFT lenses that can compete with Olympus FT Pro lenses.
Jonathan
2 years ago |My post refers to “anything Olympus has released for m43″ as in micro 4 thirds.
It’s unfortunate you had to send the D Summilux 25mm back. I can only say it works beautifully on my G1 and produces fabulous results.
As far as I understand front / back focus are impossible in CDAF. Are you sure this is not yet ANOTHER Oly-Pana compatibility issue (the EX-25 does not on my G1 but works fine on PEN bodies)?
CRB
2 years ago |PANASONIC do not impress me…they are developing sensors in a slow pace and the results seem to not improve very little…looking at dpreview samples, even the iso 400 samples has color noise (and a lot of CNR)in the sky…DR seems to be another problem without solution…they dont even mention any improvement at all…the truth is that panasonic is aiming the video markey, forgeting to give a good still camera for the photographers…and the funny part is that some of the lenses is pretty excellent…
uth
2 years ago |i think they don’t wanna use “Multiaspect sensor”. so, it doesn’t mean they won’t increase the pixel in GF2. it’s just like GF1 that didn’t have the same sensor with GH1.
ps. so admin, i think u should change your topic to “No new 16 Megapixel-Multiaspect sensor for the Panasonic GF2!”
Tobias W.
2 years ago |If I buy a FT lens for a FT body then I don not really care for such excuses. That’s what a standard should be for after all.
I hope to have the replacement within this week or at the beginning of the next week. According to users on the Flickr forums, front or back focus issues seem to be common with this lens. I hope my next one is going to be OK.
There’s not a single decent MFT lens up to now. When Olympus did that fabulous PEN commercial (the PEN Giant), you could see in their “aking of” video that they mostly used the FT 12-60mm and some legacy glass. You can’t see a single situation where they used a MFT lens. That says everything in my opinion.
Reverse Stream Swimmer
2 years ago |I think this is wishful thinking talk from local management, not from the mouth of the Pansonic Japan.
Olympus E-5 did pick the sensor best suited for still photography, not a video optimized sensor.
Await dpreview & Imaging Resource reviews for a direct benchmark between GH2 & E-5. Then we’ll know.
Agent00soul
2 years ago |I think Panasonic will make a new sensor for the GF2 and coming Olympus cameras. There is no way that they can go on forever with the same sensor. It will probably not be multi-aspect but it will be improved in other ways.
Reverse Stream Swimmer
2 years ago |Olympus needs a new sensor not for still photography, but for video:
Right now only: 720p30
Will need 720p25 for EU countries
Need 1020i60, 1020i50 for staying competitive with their PEN mirrorless cameras.
I think like others, that the multiaspect ratio is not for Olympus, since not IBIS compatible.
But the same gate lenght and the same process technology will be there in the next generation fixed aspect ratio sensors for GF2, & PEN E-P3 cameras.
Reverse Stream Swimmer
2 years ago |Typo,
Should be: 1080i60, 1080i50
Jonathan
2 years ago |Question is – if the GF2 going to use the same tired sensor the G1, G2, G10, GF1, EP-1, EP-2, EP-L, E30 and E5 use (did I miss anything)?
The best move, IMO would be to develop a new 12-14MP pixel with improved sensitivity and dynamic range.
The GH1′s sensor was used on that camera exclusively, so Panasonic’s statement seems to be in line with their ongoing policies.
I
2 years ago |You missed the E-620
Andrew
2 years ago |holy hell, we’re gonna get a dedicated panasonic t/s before we get a portrait prime.
If Canon comes out with a large sensor video enabled camera, that doesn’t over heat, I may have to jump back to the canon ship. The GH1 body is the only panasonic thing i own anyway.
All the canon cam would need is manual audio and no overheating. I mean seriously, why should i be so stubborn as to continue torturing myself waiting for panasonic to make what i want.
And mind you, i really love my GH1.
George
2 years ago |gj Panasonic and Oly for inventing and giving entire m4/3 market to Sony. You guys are idiot. These pana and oly guys should really need to browse forums and listen to feedbacks and needs. This “WE KNOW EVERYTHING” approch sucks big time. Look at NEX latest firmware ffs. They almost made every change people wanted.
And Leica label on 25mm. Good Luck with it price will be more then $750.
don't agree
2 years ago |Not to be too pedantic but Sony don’t make a m4/3 camera they make those strange NEX cameras that combine the worst of both worlds of point and shoot and SLRs – small awkward to use bodies with endless menu type controls with a largish sensor that requires lenses approximately the same size as slr’s.
I’m not even considering Sony at all, what I’d like to see would be Panasonic to keep the GF1 in the market when they release a GF2 and tailor the GF2 as a higher end alternative compact m4/3 body, loose the flash to replace it with a decent optical VF/EVF or hybrid of the two, make the body slightly sturdier and with 1080p HD, sell it for around 650 – 800 pounds with the 20mm f1.7. Sounds about perfect to me.
I
2 years ago |Did the last SONY firmware made NEX lenses smaller ?! Or integrated a real flash hot shoe or in-body stabilisation?! Does it improve ergonomics, especially with regard to manual control?!
Eric
2 years ago |Obviously not, but there is no doubt that Sony is pretty far ahead on sensor development as far as still photos are concerned (which is all I care about). That plus the larger sensor size (which is a good thing to me since it gives me more DOF control) will make me wait and see what Sony does with the NEX7 before investing too heavily into m4/3′s.
As far as the NEX 3/5 are concerned; they may not be for enthusiasts, but I’ve already recommended the NEX5 to a coworker, and I will do the same for any P&S user wanting an upgrade. Plus, after the firmware upgrades I would use one myself in a second if they had an add on EVF for them. You can buy a NEX3 + 16mm/2.8 for $500. Combine that with a 28mm range finder lens of your choice and you really do have a poor mans Leica.
Miroslav
2 years ago |Damn! This is so unwise from Panasonic, this is leading the system into the abyss… And it’s not the first time. A month ago they stated that 3D lens will work only on Panasonic bodies. But this is much more serious. Olympus can’t make cameras with 2008 sensor forever. Panasonic has to give them GH1 sensor at least. I don’t recall Olympus making something that’s not working on Panasonic cameras. Do they feel threatened by Olympus’s better image processing engine?
One route Olympus could take is to use Sony’s new 16.7 MPx APS-C sensor – in crop mode it would be a bit over 11 MPx, so not much resolution lost. And it would also be multiaspect. The question is though is there enough room for a bigger sensor ( whether 18 MPx Panasonic or 16 MPx Sony ) in small(ish) Olympus bodies.
Doing this Panasonic is also contradicting the m4/3 goal of making a small camera with DSLR image quality. GH1/2 are not much smaller than DSLRs while smaller m4/3s ( GFx and PENs ) get worse sensors. Hopefully they’ll reverse this policy or at least make a new ( single aspect ) 4/3 sensor for small cameras. I don’t care much about multi aspect ratio ( although I mostly take pictures in 16:9 ), but I do care about image quality and GH1 sensor is proven to be better in that sens to G1 sensor used by majority of m4/3 cameras.
Reverse Stream Swimmer
2 years ago |I wouldn’t be surprised if Olympus already are evaluating Sony sensors and maybe even the new sensor from Aptina that increases the dyamic range with +2EV! That should put a Four Thirds camera in performance near to 24x36mm.
The future is promising, but the best thing would be to have more patners moving into µ43. The hopes were for Fujifilm, did they go Sony APS-C in their X100? Those with a lensline, need to consider the lens compatibility issues.
Maybe, video hybrids is the best market for bringing new players in?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1000&message=36416103
kesztió
2 years ago |Don’t really care whether the GF2 will have the new 18 MP sensor or not. Pana just should do what he did with LX3/LX5: To make a new, better sensor.
If the GF2 had a new technology single-aspect sensor and a hi-res external viewfinder I would give up the GH2 idea and prepare my money for GF2.
four thirds photo
2 years ago |From a business point of view it is very unwise (read: stupid) of Olympus to be so dependent on sensors from a competitor.
I hope they learned their lessons now. They should team up with another sensor maker a.s.a.p. (and not with a competitor)
From what I have seen Olympus did a great job with sucking all detail out of their old sensor in the E5 and achieving excellent image quality. Sometimes a limitation can become a strong point.
Dummy00001
2 years ago |> From a business point of view it is very unwise (read: stupid) of Olympus to be so dependent on sensors from a competitor.
This is the state of actual affairs in the market. That’s why Sony’s entry into dSLR has made such a big splash: at the time, essentially two companies controlled lion share of the market and were producing both cameras and lenses. Bit later Panasonic had joined the fray. Rest of the camera companies (Nikon, Oly, Hoya/Pentax) have nothing else left but to watch the giants fight and feed on the leftovers: it is obvious that none of the companies would give their competitors same hot technology. I heard that Nikon was wise and quickly started their own sensor R&D – keeping Sony only as a manufacturer. Smaller companies like Oly have much less headroom…
Dummy00001
2 years ago |Oops: “were producing both cameras and lenses” -> “were producing both cameras and sensors”
AL
2 years ago |I’m happy with current resolution in GF1. Just further improve the quality and ergonomics and I’ll be even happier.
agree
2 years ago |Listen to AL he is talking sense.
fuiyoo
2 years ago |Dear Panasonic/Olympus, please put it in both of your thick skull that your customer wants something like the Fujifilm Finepix X100 + plus the ability to change lens -The End-
Duarte Bruno
2 years ago |If this reflects the top management’s view then it tells a lot.
Olympus needs another sensor supplier and they need it yesterday! If a APS-C sensor could do the job (and mind that besides the readout issues the size will probably have a lot more to do with it) Olympus would have already fished in another pond!
Until they outsource a custom built m43 sensor, their future is in Panasonic’s hands.
Luis
2 years ago |I think that putting the GH1 sensor in the GF2 would be a smart move:
-First of all, it would improve video capabilities, but also still photography (dynamic range and high ISO performance).
-It could also be selled with the “multiaspect ratio” claim that marketing department seems to like so much.
-And finally, it would be noticeably less expensive than designing and producing a new sensor, so the camera could be placed at a lower price. As far as I know most of the efforts are being employed in redesigning the appearance (maybe an integrated EVF?), and a new body with new sensor could be somewhat expensive.
But I fear Panasonic thinks this could affect the GH2 sales and leave the G2 in no-man’s-land and probably they are right. So I fear the sensor will remain the same, at best with redesigned electronics…
agree
2 years ago |It would be great, I’m not sure how many potential customers like me there are out there but I’m only interested in the GF1 or GF2 if I want an SLR type body I’ll buy Canon or Nikon.
Imants
2 years ago |Simple why bash pan just go and buy elsewhere what is it to you guys , zilch unless you have a swag of shares in pane or olie so big that you are worried about your money………. no shares go buy another product
Miklos Rabi
2 years ago |Who needs 16/18 megapixel from a GF/Pen camera? What we really need is better dynamic range and less high ISO noise. Multiaspect sensor would be nice for sure.
pisto
2 years ago |A small correction: at DSLR magazine, it is the journalist who suggest adding T/S lenses so that FT / MFT becomes “a system”, meaning that some weird lenses are needed so that professionals consider the brand as a possible purchase.
There is a long step until Panasonic believes in this.
Miklos Rabi
2 years ago |Okay, so Pentax K is not a system, Leica M is not a system. Good to know. :/
That jurnalist must be stupid.
Jonathan
2 years ago |On the contrary – he must be a genius to be able to extract meaningful insights out of every oooohh and aaahhh, every frown or relaxed smile. Nothing evades his shrewed senses and deep wisdom.
This is Journalism at its best!
pisto
2 years ago |I really have no affiliation with DSLR magazine, but the journalist (Valentin Sama) has been playing with cameras for quite some time. He is totally respectable and he knows his work.
Actually, he was once accused of being pro-Olympus because he used to do thorough reviews of Oly equipment when all the fuss went to other brands.
I disagree completely with Jonathan: I think that in an interview with some manufacturer representative, there are things that cannot be said officially and that body language tells a lot. I respect that you don’t agree with that, but there is no need to be sarcastic either, specially in a website about rumours!
And, while I do not buy that Pana or Oly need start making bizarre lenses, the journalist is also entitled to his own opinion, which is probably influenced by the 40 years he has been in the business, going from old-school large format in plates to the digital era.
Jonathan
2 years ago |fair enough. i respect your stand. i found much of the interview (and the one with olympus) quite annoying hence my sarcasm (no disrespect intended).
i think the tilt shift lens part of the interview is quite telling as it clearly shows IMO that this guy is too busy projecting his own internal dialog, thoughts and wishes to be conducting a proper interview.
i’m entitled to my opinion and we do not have to agree, please trust me no offense was intended.
I hate Idiots
2 years ago |You guys are idiots. The camera business is only a small part of Olympus’ business. They are big elsewhere, just that most of you are too blind to notice. They are bigger than Nikon, mind you.
Zaph
2 years ago |I think this may be fuelled by Olympus/Panasonic keeping too much of their tech to themselves and not sharing it with their “partners”. Pana likely wanted access to IBIS, Olympus said no. Pana wanted to know how Oly eeked that extra quality out for the E-5 from that sensor, Oly said none of your business. Pana said fine, screw you, no new sensor for you.
And I bet that sentence “each firm should reserve a space to develop differentiated products with unique technologies” was said earlier by Oly execs in a private meeting.
frosti7
2 years ago |You make it sound like they are behaving like 2 little children, i be this is not far from the truth,
Anyway panasonic is hurting Olympus and hurting m4/3 system in the way, and only because they are being selfish,
too bad panasonic, i thought you can see the big picture,
Anyway Admin do u have any info if GF2 will have GF1′s sensor?
John
2 years ago |The lack of a multi-aspect sensor in the GF-1 was one of the major reasons that I did not buy one. It would be a real shame to not put one in the GF-2.
Paul
2 years ago |I agree that a multi-aspect sensor would be nice but to be clear the rumor just said the GF1 successor wouldn’t have the same one that’s in the GH2…NOT that it wouldn’t have a multi-aspect sensor at all. Hopefully this feature will exist on the GF2(3) albeit with another sensor.
juavel
2 years ago |I did read that olympus had the GH1 sensor available (I can´t remember if they had the GH2 also) but they didn´t used it because the E5 had a limited budget to be developed, as limited as the In Sensor Stabilization (IS) redesign (due to different sized sensors) was not on budget, that could have supposed to redesign the body also, so this people is doing a favour to Olympus saying that they had no other sensor available, remember that FT had different sensors from other brands.
MK
2 years ago |Ohh i see… E-5 had limited budget. I’m sure they saved buckets of duckets. Glad to see that they passed their savings onto consumers.
frosti7
2 years ago |Perhaps they didnt consider GH1′s sensor as good alternative because of cost vs benefit, or perhaps because of banding?
Your claim of Oly redesigning body IS is highly doubtful, they cold stick the e-p2 stabilizer inside instead.
Rafa
2 years ago |No, they couldn´t, the EP-2 uses the same sensor as the E5, E30, E620, EP1 and EPL1.
The GH1 and GH2 sensors are bigger because the multi aspect ratio.
frosti7
2 years ago |My bad
Inge - M.
2 years ago |Yes, i think so also.
napalm
2 years ago |where did you read it? share?
Boooo!
2 years ago |It’s been put forward as a theory by many people on many forums. It makes perfect sense – if you get a larger 4/3 sensor (which is the case with the GH1/2 sensors), then you need to redesign the internals heavily. IBIS needs a redesign, the shutterbox needs a redesign.
If you have old component stock of those things (which Olympus surely does), then researching and manufacturing brand new stock also costs money – and since the E-5 is the last Oly DSLR, it’s simply not a viable and/or sane option.
The survival of Olympus does not depend on the E-5, but on the hypothetical E-7 and its offspring in the form of E-70 and E-700, all of which would be mirrorless, have a ground-breaking EVF, PDAF for older lenses, and a sensor manufacturer other than Panasonic. However, I’m not sure that Olympus is that smart, and I think they’re digging their own grave.
davide
2 years ago |Holy crap! Panasonic must have gone mad.
We may get a dedicated (or system!) TS before we get a decent portrait prime!
And they are not going to use their only decent sensor (GH2′s) in their upcoming best-seller (and likely very expensive) camera, GF2.
Well, at least I’ve jumped out of the boat (I sold my G1 – anybody wants the adapted 50mm f/1.4 I describe in my website?) – now I die to see what Canon and Nikon have in the mirrorless realm
vinzer
2 years ago |I think you’re supposed to get the 45/2.8 for portraits. Quite expensive though.
Keith
2 years ago |Not only is it expensive, but also pretty slow for a portrait lens. 50/1.8 or something like that would be much more appropriate.
Brod1er
2 years ago |I think panasonic will go for a nex style camera ie small. Admin has shared this rumour several times and it does make sense in combination with the 14mm and 20mm. If they don’t screw up the controls it will be a better p&s replacement than nex and could be smaller (as rumoured). I reckon they should drop the lcd and use only an evf to make it really pocketable.
There should then be room for a larger more upmarket gf too for those who like the current gf.
Ad
2 years ago |Wow, an MFT tilt/shift lens, that would really make my day! PLEASE Panasonic, continue!
Erik
2 years ago |A tilt/shift system would be great! The GF1 is just perfect in size for me, it doesn’t make sense to make the camera much smaller given the size of the lenses and that you need to be able to hold it properly. Better sensors and faster AF is always welcome but what I really wish for is a good built in evf, preferably on the right side of the camera and possible to flip up 90 degrees. Ideally they’d push all of the tech from the GH2 into the GF2, the faux SLR look of the GH2 doesn’t make sense to me but the specs do… Perhaps they should have three lines, the pro faux SLR, the pro faux rangefinder and the ultraslim consumer camera.
Erik
2 years ago |Sorry, I meant that the EVF should be on the left side of the camera (assuming you look at it from the back).. But perhaps having it close to the middle makes sense after all, are people right / left eyed?
mma173
2 years ago |They act like if there was no competition from the others.
herb
2 years ago |Olympus should go for the FOVEON sensor!!
This would make a nice little camera that beats the DP’s hands down!
Inge - M.
2 years ago |By modular camera wild Olympus few not only Panasonic sensor but, Foveon and Kodak sensor also.
Francisco Alba
2 years ago |I think companies should guard their technologies!
e_dawg
2 years ago |Ridiculous children Olympus and especially Panasonic. Their selfishness and arrogance is limiting the success of the m4/3 system. Actually, not that surprised with Panasonic, as they have a history of arrogance.
With their L series 4/3 products, they refused to sell the body and lens separately, forcing customers to pay > $1200 for a relatively unknown product. And look at what happened to the L series.
More recently, they not only kept their best sensors for themselves and the GH1/GH2 only, but didn’t share their critical CDAF technology with Olympus and prevented customers from using 3rd party batteries.
An Olympus E-P2 with the GH1 sensor and Panasonic level CDAF performance would have been an extremely strong product, as would a GF1 with the GH1 sensor and 20/1.7 kit lens. That dynamic duo would have been so compelling that it could have fought off the Sony NEX system and prevented it from gaining traction at the outset. Now the recent sales trends suggest that the NEX-5 could be outselling any of the m4/3 cameras.
They could put the GH2 sensor in the GF2 and take back the momentum, but are not willing to do so. So now the Sony A55, Canon 7D/60D/T2i, and every other 1080p dSLR will eat away at the GH1/GH2′s market share, and the NEX-5, NEX-7, and Samsung NX100 will eat away at the GF1/G2/G10 market share. Next thing you know, Canikon will join the mirrorless party, and both Oly and Panny can kiss their early lead goodbye. Ironic that they could be relegated to 4th/5th place again, but sadly, in the market they started.
I hate Idiots
2 years ago |I dunno about you, but the L lenses were pretty good. I think rather consumers are simply not willing to pay for the quality at all, which is pretty typical for the bulk of cheapskates.
kaptnk
2 years ago |Hey guys/gals. Stop focusing on MP. Start focusing on low noise. Olympus put 12.3 MP some what like Nikon but……..they took out the part of the AA filter that caused the image to blur. The sensor now can use the great resolution of the zuiko lenses. Add pixel by pixel processing with the Tru-Pic 5+ and you get resolutions of 60-70 line pairs per mm. That works out to about 3024 LPI verse 2100 before. JPEGS 30×40 in look wow. That resolution is up there with my Canon 5D MKII. Don’t expect high ISO. The pixel density is high. Getting a good 1600 ISO should be terrific. So who cares if you have 18 MP. No one asks me to print any larger than 20×30 which my E-510 did well at 100 ISO. We keep hearing that 8-12 MP is all that we need. I must of spent 1 hour or so speaking with John, the Product Manager from Olympus. I took some JPEGs at 100 and 1600 ISO. Not bad. Maybe it could be pushed to 2000 or so but that should do for most of our shots. Wait till Canon and Nikon copy this and apply it to a FF sensor. Too bad this didn’t happen years ago. Now wait for the spot sensors to cut the size down further. 4/3 is no longer dead. I will have to wait to see if DXO can push this up to 3200 ISO and or CS5. The noise is there at 6400 ISO but doesn’t look that bad. Some post processing should help alot. I have the same problem with the 5D Mark II at 6400 ISO. Happy shooting.