What are the strenghts of the m43 system?
There is more and more competition coming. Sony will announce a huge ammount of new NEX cameras ad lenses (Click here to see the lenses at SAR) and new cameras from Samsung and probably Nikon (More at MirrorlessRumors.com). But now I want to know what you think are the strenghts of the m43 system compared to the other mirrorless systems!
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Comment from Pasukun: The strength of m43 for me is that, ther...
Comment from mat: With the GF1 I've done this (sort of) a ...
Comment from Ulfric: Silly poll leaves out a very important f...Comment from Dummy00001: But there should be some way to poll wha...
Dummy00001
10 months ago |> Sony will announce a huge ammount of new NEX cameras ad lenses
The most disappointing announcement: not a single pan-cake. And I was hoping there would be a lens to consider NEX-7 with.
That comment also relates to the poll: the only advantage of m43 I can see at the moment are the compact/pancake lenses.
NEX has sensor (and hopefully a good body – NEX-7). m43 has lenses. I’m still delaying my buying into the mirrorless: too immature.
Brod1er
10 months ago |I dont think its anything to do with the maturity of the system but more a question of physics. I think it is becoming clear that it is not possible to produce a good quality & small lens for the NEX. The ratio of register distance to sensor size is too ambitious. Same applies for fast & small lenses. If it was possible, Sony would have done it by now.
Thom Hogan
10 months ago |No, it’s not physics, it’s time.
If you want a short back distance with high quality, you’re going to have to offset the microlenses, amongst other design changes. Some think that the solution is a curved sensor. But it’s not that you can’t do it, it’s that if you want to launch a 24mp followup with different camera design in 18 months after you launched your original design, you don’t have time to do all the things that would require that would allow quality pancakes. Given that your marketing department is telling you that megapixels are more important than pancakes for mass market acceptance, guess which things they spend all their time on?
voldenuit
10 months ago |+1.
Sony is the tail wagging the dog.
Back on topic, the only reason I bought into m43 was because at the time the GF1 came out, there were no other alternatives.
OF course, right now, the alternatives still aren’t very attractive (poor sensor on NX, no decent lenses for NEX), but m43 isn’t exactly a bed of roses either. If I’d known that sensor technology would lag so much on m43, or that P&O would waste 2 years re-releasing slow kit zooms and overprice their primes, I probably would have stuck with my Canon DSLR.
I’m not unhappy with my m43 kit, but it hasn’t been the best investment for my photographic dollar, either.
omox
10 months ago |I’m sorry to inform you that Sony DSC-R1 has flange back distance of 2,1 mm as far as I recall. Quite a difference compared to 18mm in NEX. And it has no problem with vigneting etc with very high quality bright zoom lens 24-120 mm. So it is not the matter of time or other magic tricks. R1 is a proof that it can be done.
Sometimes I wish I sold it…
Eric
10 months ago |It really is a shame about Sony’s lens line up. I was really hoping the Zeiss 24mm would be the answer. I can’t believe it’s even larger then their 18-55mm zoom. I’m really starting to think Sony might just be cross designing lenses for both the E-Mount and A-Mount then just adding a built in adapter for the E-Mount. There’s no reason at all they couldn’t make a 30mm pancake like Samsungs even if they have to make it a few MM’s longer to compensate for the registration distance.
The Olympus 12mm has reminded me how much I like having a proper focus ring, so I’ve been toying with the idea of picking up a NEX-7 and using M-Mount manual focus glass with it. If the offset micro lenses on the new sensor really do improve corner shaprness, a NEX7 + 16mm/2.8, + Voiglander 35mm/1.4 + Zeiss ZM 50mm/2 would make a fine kit until an interchangeable lens Fuji X100 comes along (the new Leica mirrorless system will also be very interesting, digital Leica CL perhaps?).
TR
10 months ago |I’m totally with you Eric, NEX-7 plus M-mount will be a good combination. I have been thinking about a set-up very much like what you mention.
Mr. Reeee
10 months ago |Lens flexibility was a big factor going with M4/3.
Yep, Voigtländer’s Leica M mount lenses are great because they can be used on pretty much ANY camera with the proper adaptor. I got the Nokton 35mm f1.4 and absolutely love it on my GH2! The 75mm f1.8 looks very compelling! There are a few small, fast lenses in the 28mm range, too. I kind of wish the 25mm f0.95 used an M mount, too.
Before I got into M4/3 I’d seriously considered a NEX-5, until I took a hard look at the lens “lineup”. So, with M mount lenses, I could pickup a NEX-7 and use the same manual lenses I’m using now with M4/3 for just the cost of a few adaptors and not even bother with NEX hulking mortar shell lenses. That includes my Nikon and Pentax lenses, too!
lrt
10 months ago |I love using my Nokton 40mm f1.4 too ! It makes a great combination on my GF1 with the EVF. Manipulating the lens aperture ring and manual focusing feels like mixing the feeling of film photography with digital advantages (I guess the form factor of the GF/Pen cameras plays a role here too).
The focus confirmation on NEX cameras seems great and is certainly the perfect way to use MF lenses on digital bodies, but… I still wouldn’t consider buying a NEX because of the poor and bulky lens lineup (and especially because of the lack of prime lenses). There are a lot of moments where a good AF lens is essential, and for now, only the m43 system offers that kind of choice.
ron
10 months ago |Agreed – really hoping we start to see sensors that are equivalent to the best of the larger cameras. Really want that low-light performance.
ha
10 months ago |Major point for m4/3 was good EVF in G1
Edit: And balance size vs. speed vs. quality
GreyOwl
10 months ago |+1
zf
10 months ago |Funny that no matter how much I love m43, when I tried to pick any of above, I always see others do better.
But I might add 1 thing though, M43 is the first and the very best for using legacy lenses especially c-mount lenses that nex-sensor is a bit too big for.
tipper
10 months ago |That’s the point: best EVF in the Pana Gs!
An0n
10 months ago |Remember that -any- system will have compromises. The Oly E-Px has been the best choice -for me- though.
cL
10 months ago |@zf “Funny that no matter how much I love m43, when I tried to pick any of above, I always see others do better.”
Of course…, that’s true for any camera system…. Each brand has its own advantage over another brand. Even Nikon people will admit Canon’s AF is faster. Or Olympus’s LiveView is better, or Leica’s shutter is quieter, etc., etc.. It’s a matter of which “package” fits your shooting style better.
kamran
10 months ago |you should start another poll in order to find out how many four thirds users would be migrating to other systems after olympus stranded them on an island with their precious little lense collection :p
Lee J.
10 months ago |You left out one of the most important advantages of Micro 4/3rds: full compatibility with the excellent range of 4/3rds lenses, including AF (albeit a little slow on the non-CDAF optimised ones). This gives the user access to super high quality lenses when needed (even if takes away some of Micro’s size advantage) – it means we have good options until the Micro line is filled out.
Per
10 months ago |I guess it’s a bit dry on the rumour side..
admin
10 months ago |You cannot live one day without rumors
Don’t worry, there are some coming!
Dummy00001
10 months ago |Rumors, in internet times, should be treated as new form of addiction. Choosing between smoking and reading rumors, I tend to pick the latter.
flash
10 months ago |I agree with you there.
lnqe-M.
10 months ago |Not smoking the rumors, but maybe a chees
Miroslav
10 months ago |One of main reasons I joined m4/3 are small tele lenses ( compared to APS-C and FF ) and that one is missing. Although, you can barely put it under “Because of the good sensor-size, lens-size, camera-size balance”.
Daemonius
10 months ago |Im actually no longer 4/3 user, but if something was useful on my G1, it was full time live view and 4:3 ratio. I seriously dont get ppl that squeeze everything in 3:2, worst ratio ever..
Otherwise, Olympus and his 4/3s had great lens (and less great bodies). Kinda hoping they will make same great lens for m4/3s and maybe great pro bodies. For a change..
Lee J.
10 months ago |I’m with you there! the 4:3 ratio was a big reason I decided to go with 4/3rds in the first place.
Mr. Reeee
10 months ago |Every digital camera I’ve ever had used 4:3 as the default aspect ratio. That was the standard for old TVs and CRT computer monitors.
Anyway, I like the fact that it’s so easy to experiment with different ARs with my GH2. I used to shoot film, so I kind of like 3:2 and have been using it quite a bit lately. 1:1 I like a lot and it’s actually quite challenging. One fun thing to do is shoot 16:9 with my 7-14mm.
I really don’t see any as superior. Some are more appropriate in certain situations. It certainly is nice to be able to pick and choose or even do burst shots using all FOUR!
mat
10 months ago |The multi-aspect ratio aspect of micro four thirds to me is its biggest selling point. Since I want to shoot in a native 1:1 aspect ratio with a RAW file (no cropping in post) with an interchangeable lens system, and my only other option in digital costs as much as a mid-range new car, this is the only game in town.
I’m a bit surprised that having multiple aspect ratios wasn’t included as one of the options in the poll actually.
Mr. Reeee
10 months ago |I totally agree. multi-aspect sensor is treated like a check mark on a generic spec sheet, but it’s an incredibly flexible feature. Initially I thought, gee that’s cool… until I started using it.
On older cameras I never wanted to shoot anything other than native 4:3 because I’d be taking a big resolution hit. Or I thought, I’ll crop it later. I crop when documenting design and construction projects, never for creative work, where I strive to use the entire frame, so I really prefer not to.
With the GH2 it’s not a factor. Being able to switch at will, almost as easily as I change ISO or white balance is a powerful tool, so aspect ratio has become another creative option. But it’s only available on the GH1 and GH2, so it’s not really a platform-wide feature like size, weight, etc..
Nick
10 months ago |I spose it’s not really a Micro Four Thirds thing – it’s only the GH bodies that can do it natively…
mat
10 months ago |Not so. All the GF series cameras do it. As do at least all the new Olympus cameras (am unfamiliar with the specs of the older ones). They don’t have spare sensor space as does the GH2 so that you don’t get as large of a pixel count drop though.
In my use of ‘native’ I simply mean the camera generates a RAW file in the aspect ratio you composed in and you never have to crop it in post to that. Whether I’m using the entire area of the sensor is inconsequential to me for shooting 1:1 as my paper is rectangular (17×22) and the image size is constrained by that as it is in the sensor.
Would I love a square sensor? Oh yeah.
Nick
10 months ago |GF bodies will crop RAW files in camera?
mat
10 months ago |Yes. You can get a 4:3, 3:2, 16:9, 1:1 RAW file.
Mr. Reeee
10 months ago |@Nick +10
All the other sensors crop 4:3 images to achieve different aspect ratios. The GH sensors do not.
Here’s what the GH2′s 18MP sensor does;
4:3 - 4608 x 3456 pixels 16MP
3:2 - 4752 x 3168 pixels 15MP
16:9 – 4976 x 2800 pixels 14MP
1:1 - 3456 x 3456 pixels 12MP
Daemonius
10 months ago |Well, G1 didnt have true multiaspect, but Ive used different ratios quite a lot too. Very usefull thing.
Though I would love to see 1:1 native sensor with ability to crop to 5:4, 4:3, 3:2, 16:10, 16:9 .. maybe some more, if you think about any.
But probably not in 4/3 size .. more like full-frame.
That would be really useful camera (especially coupled with high quality EVF to see what you shoot exactly).
Yea and tilt swivel LCD is superb thing with full time live view. Seems that recently more manufacturers started to add them too.
Nick Clark
10 months ago |What I’d like is the ability to program your own aspect ratio (as long as it’s within the limits of the sensor…).
mat
10 months ago |With the GF1 I’ve done this (sort of) a bunch, using the adjustable framing guidelines and then using a crop preset when processing them so I never see anything other than the framing I shot with. The RAW file doesn’t change but it worked pretty well for shooting 4:5 and 1:2.35 aspect ratios.
Ranger 9
10 months ago |M43 is a compromise, but it’s still the best compromise if you want a balance of small SYSTEM size, range, and image quality.
– Sony has good image quality, but the lenses are too big.
– Samsung is similar but without Sony’s sensor quality.
– Pentax Q is a small system, but it’s targeted at people who primarily view/share their photos online (e.g. Facebook) and are satisfied with compact/phone-camera image quality. Nikon rumors seem to be trending toward a similar concept.
– Whatever Leica introduces, if anything, undoubtedly will be very, very expensive.
That leaves M4/3, like it or not…
DonTom
10 months ago |+1 on the balance of compromise.
The other, and main reason I chose this system was because of the partnership between Olly and Panny. Rare these days in any field. Made me feel there would be some longevity to the format. CV making a native lens only confirmed that feeling.
Brod1er
10 months ago |Agree and now Samyang are about to produce a mft dedicated fisheye. I hope both companies continue. Will Sigma step in and produce something with AF? 35mm and 70mm primes or fast tele zoom would be nice- nudge nudge!
ronnbot
10 months ago |Agreed.
I have the E-PL2 with 9-18,14-42,40-150 and 20/1.7 native lenses. I don’t think this set’s balance of quality, size, price and range can be beat.
Oly’s IBIS is a big plus to me since it means all the native and legacy lenses I have are stabilized.
There is no decent EVF on the NEXs and NXs like the VF-2 I’ve been using, that is until the NEX-7 comes out.
Not really a catebory but you can’t mount a ‘real’ flash on a NEX (again before the aforementioned NEX-7), while I can mount one on or wireless control one (a Metz 50) from the E-PL2.
The m43 is no where near being the best system, but it is the optimal system based on personal preferences.
physica
10 months ago |What I think is rather different then other photographers. I like m43′s deep DoF.
Deep DoF is good for some snap shot at street , and any casual use . Keeping a wide range of clear area. Despite it’s fake , the bokeh could be made by PhotoShop or other software.
Nick Clark
10 months ago |Balance and options
Between Panasonic and Oly there are six current bodies with three fairly distinct form factors.
There’s a heap of lenses, from consumer-grade to very high-quality, and the holes are filling fast.
There’s *native* third-party support (Voigtlander/Samyang) that’s only going to get better with time.
There’s adapters available for pretty much every mount ever made.
The Four Thirds sensor seems to strike a really nice balance-point between outright IQ, low-light performance, DoF (deep for landscape and shallow if needed), and lens size.
To me, Micro Four Thirds is the only mirrorless option that the manufacturers seem intent on making into a SYSTEM – in this sense having both Panasonic and Oly on board as major partners is a brilliant move.
WT21
10 months ago |3 lenses does not equal “huge amount of lenses”
Brod1er
10 months ago |3 lenses are a 100% increase on what they had before
Shame only one looks interesting (and is large and expensive)
Ben Y
10 months ago |I voted even though I don’t currently own any m4/3 equipment. Gasp!
ArKersaint
10 months ago |Just realised how right is the balance between different sizes : that should rationalise the emotionnal attachment to the system.
Admin, you should add another poll for the weaknesses… Excluding sensor !
WT21
10 months ago |“Admin, you should add another poll for the weaknesses”
Oh please don’t. Isn’t there enough complaining/negativity on the internet as it is? It’s like a giant whine-fest in the ether. (yeas, I see the irony of whining about whining)
Mr. Reeee
10 months ago |+10.
Ulli
10 months ago |+100
Dummy00001
10 months ago |But there should be some way to poll what people want to see improved in their cameras.
For example, with one post Admin can gather comments/complains of the users (say, max one comment per registered user allowed). Then compile from the comments/complains the list of poll options and post it here but with comments disabled.
ahvalj
10 months ago |Olympus colors.
Lee J.
10 months ago |+1
Oliver
10 months ago |Assuming all available camera systems have a similar satisfying image quality the MFT system offers the biggest choice at the moment:
Do I want to have a Pana or Oly?
Which picture style do I prefer?
Do I prefer a built in or detachable and tiltable EVF?
Do I prefer zoom-lenses or do I want to use a fixed focal lenght?
Do I need an as small as possible cam or do I want a tiltable display?
Do I want in-body-IS or in-lens-IS?
What kind of accessory is available to increase the usability of my cam?
Nick
10 months ago |Options for the win
Anonymous
10 months ago |This is actually a really good summary of why this system is so interesting, and why I jumped in it without any question when I bought my GF1.
I really think it deserves a lot more consideration from both sellers and buyers, it’s too bad Olympus and Panasonic didn’t advertise it as well as Sony did.
Ulli
10 months ago |the main strength is for me the fact that while i shoot my model outdoor sessions with a standard size setup (fast large 50mm & EVF & grip), i can also change it into a small size setup (pancake) for candid/snapshooting.
ArKersaint
10 months ago |@ wt21 : you are right ! That’s exactly why i mentioned “excluding sensor”.
So i guess there should be n room for usuel complains re DR and high iso…
pdc
10 months ago |m43 was an instant hit for me in 2008 for all the reasons above, and as long as PanOly provide enough pro functionality in the product range m43 will remain the logical choice over aps-C MILCs.
Mr.NoFlash
10 months ago |I think you missed three very important points:
* m43 is the market leader on mirrorless ( roughly Oly 30% + Panny 30%, Sony 30% )
* m43 has the best integration to classic DSLRS ( can focus many 4/3 DSLR lenses reasonable fast and has the same flash, so if you want to use OVF and mirrorless, m43 and 4/3 integrates best )
* best antidust.
Renato M.
10 months ago |What I like about the m43 so far is the compact body with good option of lenses.
What I look for in a camera is good video capabilities but with good still as well, so far, the GH2 has been the best cost/benefit.
But right now I’m really interested in the NEX-7. Besides it video feats (AVCHD 2.0 1080p60) I liked the rangefinder look style, size and the NEX way of “peaking mode” for MF lenses. What I don’t really like about the NEX cameras is the lack of lenses and compact ones. I’m hoping that the GH3 could be the first to bring the Global Shutter, that would be a killing feat for any videographer! But so far is only a rumor and I only think it has 60% of really happening.
I think that the GH3 is scheduled for the next winter and I don’t expect it too soon, but we could have some rumors to at least show us in which direction the GF PRO and GH3 is going.
Kylberg
10 months ago |m4/3 was the first and due to that it has an advantage. Lens development: To many “look-alike” with medium quality, but now they catch up quickly. Sensor development: GH2 and G3 are steps forward, but the rest lag behind the competition in development speed.
NEX-7 looks very tempting, but will the step up from 16 to 24 Mpix be made with same/better quality?
ron
10 months ago |Would be more interested to see what people see as the biggest deficits of the M43 system is…
malamut
10 months ago |Two more reasons which are important (at least to me) but not on your list:
- Lightweight. Size is not that important when not talking about the ultracompact segment, but weight is. I don’t want to carry around >1kg of equipment.
- AF precision, especially with fast lenses. Many DSLRs have severe problems in this area, as I had to painfully experience. No problems with that on any system where the image sensor is also the AF sensor.
One more reason which I might like to add on some later day:
- Silent operation. Currently, though the mirror is gone, we still have a loud shutter, and there’s no way to switch it off. But it need not stay like that forever, as Ricoh’s Leica module proves.
Harold GLIT
10 months ago |If I may suggest something , I find it illogical that there is not an option for 4;3 image ratio
if you choose 4;3 sensor , it may mean that you like the size or the quality of the sensor
tHere should also be a choice named OTHER so that this makes a real poll and not ne with whichever bias of the admin
Harold
deniz
10 months ago |honestly what i like is the pen form factor and the great panasonic 20mm.
Sam
10 months ago |You forgot ‘the short back flange distance’
One of the main reasons for me buying into the system was so some old lenses (that you can no longer buy) could be reused rather than thrown away.
The other reason I bought a GF1 was that Panasonic’s association with Leica gave me confidence in their ability to make decent photographic equipment. Coupled with Panny’s expertise in video from the days when I used to shoot DV on DVX’s with the 24p mode, I thought it was the best system to buy into for hybrid camera technology. I still think this is the case and we’re probably going to get a GH2/3 for video stuff in the office, the next camera I’ll buy for myself will hopefully be a Panasonic development of the GF1 with built in, high quality viewfinder or an M9-P if I win the lottery.
I’d personally pay at least the same price or more for a GH2 in a rangefinder style body.
Voldenuit
10 months ago |If you’re adapting legacy lenses, the Sony NEX and Ricoh GXR do something no m43 camera does (yet): focus peaking.
I use a couple of legacy lenses on my GF1, and I would kill or this feature at the end of a long, tiring shoot.
Tristan
10 months ago |Why isn’t Image Quality on the list?!
The main reason I switched to a panasonic GF1 was image quality with the 20mm lens. For my use I get better image quality then from my old DSLR, in a more compact body. The images are good enough for stock library use, I can carry the camera everywhere, and it doesn’t draw attention. I loved the results and handling from my old Leica D-Lux 2, but the image quality wasn’t quite good enough, and the GF1 handles in a similar way in the menu’s etc, but with much higher image quality.
mountainwalker
10 months ago |m43 sensor size is 13×17.3, nex sensor size is 15.6×23.4 mm. Therefore, the diameter of the sensor circumcircle on nex cameras is 1.2996 times larger than on m43, the circumcircle area is 1.6890 times larger, and what I call the “glass volume factor” is 2.1950: Thus, if we just could blow up a m43 lens in order to make it work on the APS-C sensor of a nex camera, we would have to carry around 220 grams instead of 100 grams.
That’s exactly why I prefer m43 because the most limiting factor of photographic equipment is weight.
Ulfric
10 months ago |Silly poll leaves out a very important factor ;
EVF-based legacy lens focusing.
Doh.
Pasukun
10 months ago |The strength of m43 for me is that, there are two brand of cameras that shares the same mount, and they produce great quality lenses. Panasonic had 20mm 1.7, while Olympus will debut ever-so-wanted 45mm 1.8. Then there is 14mm 2.5 and 12mm 2.0, all of them are outstanding. Then there are bodies, range finder style of E-P series, beginner friendly E-PL and post GF1 series, finally there are GH series that built and handles lot like DSLR. On top of that, you have some models with touch screen, some with swivel or tilt screen, some with built-in or mountable EVF. No matter what type of mix & match you want in size, feature and performance, it seems like m43 has it.