Rumors: Nikon system versus Micro Four Thirds
Our friend from Nikonrumors said that the mockup you see on top is very clsoe to the real Nikon mirrorless camera.
Micro Four Thirds will soon get new competition from one of the two big brothers…Nikon! You can see the latest leak at Mirrorlessrumors. We know have a bit of reliable rumors we can use to compare the new Nikon system with the current Micro Four Thirds cameras and lenses. Those are the main features:
1) Nikon will use a 2.7x crop sensor. It is smaller than Micro Four Thirds! In theory m43 sensors will still have a higher image quality but the smaller Nikon sensor will allow a more compact body and lens design.
2) Nikon will announce powerzoom lenses. Good that Panasonic already has some of them, so there will be no advantage to use the Nikon system.
3) Nikon will price camera+kit lens at $900-$1,300. That is the price of the Olympus E-P3 and Panasonic GH2. If the smaller sensor doesn’t deliver the same or almost the same image quality of the Micro Four Thirds sensor than probably the price will be too high.
The Nikon system will be announced on September 21. And here is the question:

peter
9 months ago |….a week competitor, but it is a nikon, so many people will prefer it, no matter of anything else.
Mike
9 months ago |That’s very true, especially if it happens to come with a F-mount adapter with proper electronic coupling for modern lenses.
Joel
9 months ago |It will be stronger than u4/3 simply because of the name, most people buy on name (image) first I think…
If they use a Sony sensor (just cut down to size, so less mp, but same quality as lately) then they will have better noise and DR than u4/3 even with a smaller sensor…
I will stay with u4/3 as I think it will take a good number of years for Nikon to catch up lens wise (esp primes) and I am not sure Nikon wants it to be too much of a DSLR replacement as that hurts their bread and butter low end DSLR sales…
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@Joel
most people buy on word of mouth and looks (and now fun and creativity), brand is a bit more down the list…
Joel
9 months ago |Yes but I think the word of mouth is often based on what is *cool* (the image of the company in general).. And good products leak across the brand, so the model they want may be worse but that brand has a good image (maybe due to some other higher end product) and people talk alot about that brand so they buy it..
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |and that’s exactly why the Nintendo Wii outsold the SONY playstation 3
Joel
9 months ago |I’m sure being half the price might have helped (especially since they are still a strong brand name synonymous with quality kids gaming)..
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@Joel
it was mostly parents and other adults who bought and used the Wii, where as the Playstation 3 was mostly bought and used by 15-30 males.
Panasonic and Olympus are in a stronger position to reduce price if they wish because they have most of their development costs out of the way now (Sony and samsung have the muscle).
Joel
9 months ago |Don’t know I agree with the wii buyers in my experience (friends/family etc who bought it)..
But I agree 100% with pana/Oly strong pricing position, they would already have covered some of the R&D costs with their lens range and have a good head start on the others…
gelo
9 months ago |However,,,, m43 is not nitendo Wii.
Joel
9 months ago |very true Nintendo have a HUGE name and history in gaming, Panasonic well don’t at all and Oly are not a big name like Canon or Nikon…
NiKo
9 months ago |It will be stronger by the brand name, probably not that much by the provided IQ. Mostly matter of what you’re after. From the sales PoV, Nikon mirroless system will sell much more than m43 just because of their marketing & distribution dept powers.
Kralin
9 months ago |and that’s not our problem…
43pr0n
9 months ago |If it has IBIS and better IQ (less noise at higher ISOs in raw, as good or even better than m32 lenses), then bring it on!
43pr0n
9 months ago |… I mean M43 …
Rachnaroch
9 months ago |No IBIS… VR lenses with small apertures. A waste of resources unless those lenses are really tiny -like I could fit a few of them in my pockets-. Even them, can’t see the point. I guess they are designing this system just to replace compacts when these are finally replaced by smartphones. Fine, but not sure this will work when M43 is getting closer to P&S size (see G3 + X pancake zoom).
On the other hand, releasing this system won’t stop Nikon releasing a FF mirrorless system in the future. That would be something completely different. But this tiny system… Well, let’s see, maybe they can surprise us, they have resources to do it.
DirkL
9 months ago |With fast and stabilized lenses which compensate for the smaller sensor and a state-of-the art Sony sensor it could be a strong competitor.
Will not happen though, it will take one or two more years for fast lenses to appear (if at all), by then m4/3 and others (Fuji?) are far ahead.
Elniorg\'s Journeys
9 months ago |No, this doesn’t make sens: you don’t make a compact design thanks to a x2.7 crop sensor and then cripple the concept with bloated (as in “fast and stabilized”) lenses. What is more likely is that they go the Pentax route with non-stabilized fast-enough pancakes… And then they have a winner product…
DirkL
9 months ago |Those fast Nikon lenses would still be smaller than corresponding m4/3 Panasonic lenses.
DirkL
9 months ago |For example, I have a C-mount Tamron 12.5-50 mm f1.8, it is slightly smaller in lenght (internal zoom) and width than the Panny m4/3 14-45. The Tamron is not stabilized though.
The focal length does not correspond to the Panny with Nikon’s crop factor, I meant just to show what is possible.
kesztió
9 months ago |Guys!
There are only two camera manufacturers: the
Canon
and the
Nikon.
As one of them just have released a mirrorless camera system the mirrorless era just have begun.
DirkL
9 months ago |-
Mr. Reeee
9 months ago |Obviously, you’re joking, but there IS some truth to it!
I walk around NYC and see cameras everywhere. And iPhones. Big, fat DSLRs with their pop-up flashes deployed… ready for fill-flash! Occasionally, I’ll see a M4/3 or Leica. Lots of NEXes. Hipsters now carry 1970s SLRs. But Canon and Nikon seem to be the obligatory choice.
As for this Nikon mirrorless, I have no idea how it will do. Nikon’s compact cameras have been pretty weak, but who knows? I’d suspect the smaller sensor will have a high megapixel number for the sake of marketing. So this will mean low IQ, unless Nikon has managed to find a way to defeat the laws of physics.
I’d prefer to see exactly what sort of system and accessories Nikon is offering and in what price range, before making a call.
It would be foolhardy to count Nikon out.
Rachnaroch
9 months ago |That’s the thing with Nikon: their compacts suck, yet they have managed to raise their sales to levels nobody expected. Can they do the same with this system? I highly doubt it… but hey, it’s Nikon.
wonderer
9 months ago |If they would use same format lenses as m43, they would get a sharper picture. If smaller, it definitely depends on size/quality of the lenses.
I’ve used Canon & Nikon cameras, so far Nikon has been like an old KIA in the past, cheap, not-reliable and so many problems I wanted to kill any Nikon representative.
zero support plus couldn’t fix many problems caused by bad quality control (Nikon D90 famous problems) that he simply didn’t fix, deleted threads from its forum, released ZERO firmware updates and after sending it to them & they fixed it broke within a week…
cost you more than a camera.
I never had a problem with Canons, top notch quality. Now I’m panasonic guy just because m43 is so sweet and in video it is better than Olympus.
I promised myself to steer away from Nikon forever.
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |in the eyes of the consumer?
1. coolpix owners won’t be upgrading to this (too conservative and pricey)
2. DSLR owners wanting a smaller quality compact won’t be purchasing
3. DSLR owners wanting a 2nd take anywhere quality camera won’t be either
4. micro four thirds owners won’t give this a 2nd look
5. nex 5n and 7 potential purchasers will stay with there decision
That leaves who to purchase this camera???
TheVoiceoverman
9 months ago |Explain 2) and 3) exactly? Nikon DSLR owners wanting a smaller camera are far more likely to pick this than anything else surely? Camera brand loyalty is extraordinary compared to practically any other comsumer example you can give. And there’s a LOT of Nikon DSLR owners…
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@TheVoiceoverman
2. it’s too small for their old male big hands and brains and the lenses will be the size of conkers, plus how many Nikon DSLR owners already own a coolpix (not many), Nikon DSLR owners will find it harder to make the psychological jump and be more fastidious.
Electronic brand loyalty is fast changing, look at Nokia, Ericsson and Motorola!
3. those have haven’t already bought into mirrorless for their 2nd take anywhere camera will have been looking though at everyone else’s offerings that are now proven and established, this one Nikon mirrorless camera won’t really do it for them…
And there’s a LOT of fed up Nikon DSLR owners…
Raist
9 months ago |According to your rationale no more Panasonic nor Olympus micro four thirds cameras would sell. I find fault with both of your points there. There is still a market there, and I don’t see why Nikon wouldn’t get part of it- at least for the reasons you mentioned.
- Raist
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@Raist
which points exactly? Nikon DSLR owners are more likely to buy something the size of a GH2 in my opinion, even if it was mirrorless Nikon offering.
Nikon DSLR owners wanting a compact mirrorless customers have a wide choice from established competitors in this segment…
One other point, many Nikon DSLR owners would be peeved off that Nikon are bringing out a mirrorless camera before updating their D700 and D3 line ups…
Anyway time will tell (the next 18 months)…
SentimentalOldFool
9 months ago |As an old E-510 owner I found GH2 too small for a primary camera and I ended up joining Canon’s evil empire. However, for a secondary camera GH2 would be too big:-) So if I would be a Nikon owner, this 2.7 crop factor mirrorless would be a perfect solution, now waiting for Canon’s next move…
Thevoiceoverman
9 months ago |Lenses the size of conkers is an advantage. There’s no point having a 2nd camera that’s nearly as big as your DSLR.
Nobody knows what it will be like ergonomically yet and I certainly have no idea what the average hand size of a Nikon user is. Neither do you.
I didn’t say electronic brand loyalty. I said camera brand loyalty, which is WAY above anything else you can name.
Guess it’ll come down to the features, and heaven forbid, what the pix it can take look like.
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |This Nikon mirrorless camera is too masculine for one, having lenses the size of conkers isn’t going to bode too well when they are rattling about in your pocket/purse/make up bag.
The Nikon DSLR owners I tend to meet and see socially outside of the camera world tend to be male, older and conservative ( I know it’s quite a generalisation, but there you go).
Mr. Reeee
9 months ago |What is a conker?
Ulli
9 months ago |and whats a brian?
Nico Foto
9 months ago |+1
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@Mr. Reeee
The seed of the horse chestnut, Aesculus hippocastanum
Bob B.
9 months ago |According to Wikipedia a conker is the seed of a horse chestnut… WOW…if that is a technical term used here..those Nikon lenses are going to be damn small??? But the spell-checker is jumping all over the conker here..so maybe the word doesn’t exist at all?
BornOptimist
9 months ago |I think you are completly wrong.
DSLR users will pick this before ANY other mirrorless if the size is smaller than m43, NX or NEX.
It’s those who think of REPLACING their DSLR than will look to m43, NX or NEX.
The only reason to leave DSLR is size. Mirrorless can’t compete on IQ, they can’t compete on autofocus (tracking) and are just even on video. The only thing that makes them attractive is size.
And it doesn’t take too much to compete with the IQ from any m43 even if the sensor is 22% smaller (if 17mm sensor as rumored).
And BTW, this image is just a mockup, made by NR. It’s not an image of the final product.
BornOptimist
9 months ago |Just to clarify – I mean 22% smaller when comparing diagonal length of the sensor, not area.
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@BornOptimist
“DSLR users will pick this before ANY other mirrorless if the size is smaller than m43, NX or NEX.” why???
“The only reason to leave DSLR is size” faster pace of innovation, more creative, more usable etc
“Mirrorless can’t compete on IQ” there isn’t enough difference unless you are printing larger than 20 by 30 inches (50 x 75cm) and but want to view images very close up.
“And BTW, this image is just a mockup” I know, but they are releasing only ONE camera at the moment , which will make it it difficult to attract everyone who isn’t interested in mirrorless.
Olympus, Panasonic and Sony mirrorless lenses can be used across a wide range of their offerings from their small to medium compact cameras to their semi-pro to their pro video cameras…
BornOptimist
9 months ago |I thougth I was clear when I said why they would pick this system – size. I did also say IF it’s smaller than m43.
Faster pace of innovation doesn’t mean anything as long as they are so far behind to start with. They can only hope to get even in a reasonable time, and that is not with the technology that exist today. Given the pace of Olympus to adopt new technology that is not something that will happen soon.
Only large printing size will reveal the difference – exactly! Only few customers care whether it’s a 2.7x or a 2x. A lot of the potensial customers for these cameras still believe in the myth more pixel = better pictures. How it looks is an other criteria, and don’t underestimate name as an important criteria.
According to NR, there will be two cameras announced from Nikon.
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |OK two things.
A camera can be too small, even if you have small hands, that’s why in the main mobile cameras are only good for centre focus, auto everything else snap shots…
It’s going to difficult to justify to a consumer (possibly a coolpix type upgrader) to justify spending around 900$ for a camera that is exactly the same size as their camera phone and/or cool pix that they already own as well as the further continuing price drop of point and shoots…
The Other Chris
9 months ago |I see what you did there. Well played.
Nikonaut
9 months ago |When Nikon decide to do something in the camera world, the camera world listens.
But I would still prefer a camera with f-mount and a bigger sensor.
ahvalj
9 months ago |I have chosen Olympus mirrorless cameras for two main reasons — (1) colors and overall picture rendition and (2) relatively small lenses. If the current rumors of the Nikon mirrorless cameras are true, then the (2) will be OK, but from my 2,5-year experience with Nikon DSLRs I don’t think I will like the (1). With Sony NEX (I have a NEX-5 for video) I don’t like both (1) and (2). So, let there be more competition as the tastes and needs vary so much.
Parci
9 months ago |I wouldn’t underestimate Nikon, they certainly aren’t stupid.
Ulli
9 months ago |I think highly of both Nikon and Canon, its just i can’t say the same of fanboys.
Patric
9 months ago |How will Nikon fanboys explain away the even less shallow DOF of this camera compared to FF, and even compared to m4/3 and 4/3, and probably worse high ISO noice, than m4/3 and 4/3 has?
Should be interesting to here why such a small sensor will superior to anything else mirrorless.
Raist
9 months ago |What will be interesting is if their camera has as much noise as current micro four thirds. If they are using one of those Sony sensors it very well might. Look at what the Pentax Q is doing and that’s using like near the smallest of the smallest. Look at the Sony K-5/D7000 APS-C and see the jump they did over the previous.
Katsunami
9 months ago |Smaller than m4/3? It’s worthless before it’s started. m4/3 loses 2 stops of depth of field (so f/2 becomes f/4 with regard to DOF), and the Nikon will loose even more. f/2 will become f/5.4.
I would never ever go smaller than m4/3, and since Sony annouced the NEX-7, I’m actually following that camera, and if the reviews are good, I expect to pair it with Zeiss ZM and Leica-M lenses.
If Nikon is using such a small sensor, then why don’t they just create a compact camera with with a 24-105 f/2 equivalent zoom then?
tipper
9 months ago |Hello,
there will be a market for this camera. Just because people prever a Nikon. It’s just a question of the brand.
From the technical point of view I can’t see advantages for the cam. m4/3 and NEXes have better specs. There are some m4/3 CAMs they are to small to work with and you can put them in your pocket. A smaller cam like these ones makes no sense at all.
Brod1er
9 months ago |The one advantage of the 2.7 crop is that it will be smaller and potentially more pocketable. I have a gf3 and 14mm and 20mm lenses. It is only just pocketable. Everything else is worse ie:
-shallow DOF capability
-IQ
-camera handling
-compatibility with SLR lenses limited with 2.7
I don’t think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. I am certain MFT cams can be made thinner than my gf3 without compromising ergonomics so I can live with the pocketability (X 14-42 really helps). Ultimately I want one system that can be small, high quality that has good lenses. Only MFT delivers on this.
Brod1er
9 months ago |Having said that I voted that the Nikon will be a strong competitor. They are a strong brand and I am sure will bring out cheaper cameras soon. If Nikon keep Pansonic honest it is no bad thing. Only remaining question – where is Canon????????? I assume they will soon come out with something that is just like the Nikon!
Nico Foto
9 months ago |Canon generally waits patiently to see where the market is heading before doing anything. In any case, i think that once they decide to do something, it will be some serious stuff…
Peter
9 months ago |It really depends on what lenses Nikon will be offering. If they are a stop faster than the current crop of f/5.6 FT consumer zooms then it will nicely compensate for the smaller sensor. Ie. Nikon at f/4 with ISO 200 will (roughly) be equal in noiselevels, DOF and shutterspeed to FT at f/5.6 and ISO 400
A smaller sensor makes faster lenses more feasible (see Panasonic LX5 and especially Olympus ZX1 for examples).
I’m not holding my breath though… (besides, apparently no viewfinder, which is a must-have for me)
Gianluca
9 months ago |If the crop will be 2.7 the sensor area in mm2 will be 118.
the micro43 is 225mm2.It’s 2 time bigger.
It’s quite impossible to have the same image quality keeping, for example, a 12mp sensor.
BornOptimist
9 months ago |The “old” 1″ sensor was a 4:3 ratio sensor. The new Nikon sensor is a 3:2 (from the pictures of the mount), and if it’s a 17mm dia (from the lens patents), the dimensions of the sensor will be 14.14 x 9.43mm = 133mm2
This is close to 2.55x crop (the 2.7x crop comes from the old 1″ with 4:3 ratio).
Given the 12Mp sensor in Oly is at least 3 years old, I’m not at all surprised if the IQ of this new sensor is at least as good, if not better.
It’s a bit difficult to compare the two formats, since the aspect ratio between them are different. It seems like a big difference from the m43 sensors from an area point of view, but there are less than 22% difference when looking at diagonal difference.
BornOptimist
9 months ago |I’m replying to myself here but bear with me…
If we compare the two sensors with the same aspect ratio (and supposed 17mm dia on the Nikon sensor).
The 12Mp m43 sensor in 3:2 aspect ratio is approx 17.3 x 10.3mm
This is an area of ca 178mm2
Then this is sensor is just 34% larger than the Nikon sensor.
The difference is not significant imo.
Do you believe 3 years of technology advance can make up for 34% difference in size?
I do!
at
9 months ago |A 2.7x crop means 1-inch type sensor. Again, it is only good you can use CCTV/FA C-mount lenses designed for 1-inch sensors. Since Nikon doesn’t own the sensor technology, we do not expect surprises as much as Fujifilm, though the sensor quality maybe close to M4/3.
BornOptimist
9 months ago |“Since Nikon doesn’t own the sensor technology…”
What do you know about that?
They own the technology behind D3100, D3, D3S, D700 sensors, so who knows.
There are no sensors on the marked today that has the rumored 17mm diagonal, so this is a brand new sensor whether it is a Nikon, Sony or others.
I *DO* expect a surprise when we hear about the sensor.
at
9 months ago |You are right! To be fair, maybe we need to compare it with M4/3.
M43Photo
9 months ago |I wonder what the register distance will be. Probably even shorter than that of the M4/3 format. That means that you can make adapters for using M4/3 lenses on the new Nikon system, although I doubt the aperture and focus control will work. Making an adapter which translates the electronic control signals is probably not easy.
The various register distances:
http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2010/04/register-distance.html
Simon
9 months ago |Nikon had a long time to observe the market and see what consumers like and what not. They will come up with a great IQ to size compromise and competitive body design. The Sony 2.7 sensor most probably will equal or exceed Panasonic’s m43 sensors, and Nikon lately made good progress in their Coolpix department. I expect a strong competitor. Good for everyone having the choice and putting some more pressure on m43.
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@Simon
“Nikon had a long time to observe the market” too long!
The pressure on m43 will be mostly from Sony then Samsung and then Nikon and Pentax Q, Fuji would be a stronger competitor than Pentax and Nikon if they brought out mirrorless cameras (but what would be better is if Fuji went micro four thirds).
bilgy_no1
9 months ago |Like others, I agree that it will be a strong competitore, just because it’s a Nikon. Not just from the brand awareness POV, but also from the sales channels POV. Every store that sells interchangeable lens cameras carries Nikon DSLRs. The category managers at HQ of big electronics stores know the Nikon reps, know that Nikon sells well and that Nikons are lucrative items to carry. That’s why from day 1 this is released, you’ll see it in all the stores, while even after 3 years of m4/3 you still have to look for it specifically. Salespeople will push whatever they have in stock and what gives a good margin, not necessarily what gives the best IQ or is the best choice for a particular customer.
Olympus and Panasonic had 3 years to prove the concept, not only to themselves, but also to the sales channels. Let’s see if they’ve made enough of an effort.
There is one way in which this can still turn positively for m4/3. If Nikon screw the whole camera up completely and it gets universally bad press, all the reviewers will suddenly start praising m4/3 as the better alternative. One of those screw-ups could be a price of $900 if it compares more to a $500 E-PM1. But that price is still a rumour only.
BTW this concept makes clear why Olympus and Panasonic have put so much effort into miniaturisation (GF3, E-PM1, X kit lens). A very sound decision!
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@bilgy_no1
you forget how much the likes of Jessops (especially), Comet, Currys are struggling in the UK!
jonathan
9 months ago |You not mentionned the fact that a 2,7 x cropped factor sensor stand for a 16mm diagonal length sensor. It’ll be the perfect body to adapt good old fast C-Mount lenses if the flange register permit it. And it seems that NIKON has choosen the 3:2 sensor ratio. And I WOULD’NT BE SURPRISED If FUJI announced a new compact mirrorless system sharing the same new nikon mount. ( See the new Fuji X10/X50 with a 1/1,6 inch sensor) within the next months.
Ranger 9
9 months ago |This looks like another disappointing dud from the makers of Coolpix, a product line that in general has absolutely nothing going for it. The only reason Coolpixies sell is that they’ve got distribution; I don’t think the Nikon brand name means anything to anyone who isn’t already involved in photography.
Clearly Nikon only cares about DSLRs — they do a good job of those — and the result is this lame phoned-in design. It’s as if someone said, “Okay, we need to be in the mirrorless market… what’s the LEAST we can do to get in it?”
telekin
9 months ago |I wonder how would they stabilize those power zoom lenses with a 2.7 crop sensor, I have a GF1 and I have troubles to get an satabilized photo with an OM 50mm 1.4 … the electronic coupling will be a MUST. But who knows maybe they will find a niche market in sports and fashion journalists that spend thousands (more than a 2!) in big nasty lenses…. anyway my kidney sale is reserved of course for the GX1 and the 7-14mm orgasmic kit. Follow me @pipemoronv for the ugly truth
MarkJ
9 months ago |It looks like Nikon have designed a system that avoids any overlap with their DSLR range. They see customers upgrading from P&S cameras to it, rather than DLSR users switching to something smaller and lighter, but with equivalent image quality, like the NEX. Nikon are trying to protect the market for the lenses they’ve spent decades developing, but unfortunately for Nikon, I don’t think it will work in the long run and they will have to release a better system than this small sensor effort. IMO M43 is the minimum sensor size for a mirrorless camera to be taken seriously, and the GF3 with a pancake or X-lens is already as small as many P&S cameras.
mahler
9 months ago |I hate this gripless body designs and don’t like the trend to over miniaturization. A GH2 is the sweet spot where m4/3 and mirrorless should be.
Daemonius
9 months ago |They are “jumping the shark”. Nikon is gona die, if they dont do something reasonable really quick..
It so fkin easy to get it right, why nobody does?
Adrian
9 months ago |SONY NEX is the future man! Micro43 system will go down in history as a big mistake, dead end
jonathan
9 months ago |That’s funny, Nex have the best sensor and IQ available and the worst ergonomics !
It sounds like putting a Ferrari engine in a toyota prius !
flash
9 months ago |Sony has a much two short of register for its sensor size with the current sensors. They can not even get a 24 mm 35mm lens equivalent to work with out resorting to huge optical design, as a result they have expensive bad glass.
Their overall IQ counting the lens and the image processor is very disappointing, and not up to m43s. High ISO performance does not mean overall high IQ. Sony will drop the mount in about 4 to 5 years.
jonathan
9 months ago |I mean, SONY has the best sensors with the best IQ out of them for now. This fact is independant of the mounted lens putted in the front of a nex camera. And yes i agree, Sony nex lenses are not the best deal and not as sharp as leicas, but it can still deliver beautiful images provided that sony nex and its lenses are hold by a talented photographer.
Mike
9 months ago |Why do the latest NEX still and video samples look so poor then? Why have a tiny body and big honking lenses. NEX is a half baked attempt and is pricey. You might as well buy a small DSLR instead as you will have a better body, better controls, you’ll save money, and have better balance for the big honkin lenses.
jonathan
9 months ago |I mean, Sony has the best sensors with the best IQ out of them for now. This fact is independant of the mounted lens putted in the front of a nex camera. And yes i agree, Sony nex lenses are not as sharp as leicas, but it can still deliver beautiful images provided that sony nex and its lenses are hold by a talented photographer
Nathan
9 months ago |I think it’s a weak proposition, and I’ll try to support that opinion:
1. 2.7x crop turns a standard nifty-fifty legacy lens into a 135mm. This is probably just beyond the useful range. 2x crop is generally already inconvenient when using legacy glass.
2. Image quality can’t be as good as u43 unless Nikon produces all of their kit lenses at F2 and larger just to overcome the sensor’s limitations.
3. Nikon is unmotivated to produce a world-class MILC/EVIL because their inexpensive SLRs are expected to handle the entire enthusiast to pro market.
4. No upgrade path with any kind of compatibility means there is no reason Nikon should be chosen by name alone. You’re better with a camera company like Panasonic or Olympus who is fully committed to making your camera system the best it can be. An executive who says “no” to customer demand because making a product improvement would threaten the market share of the product above it in the product line is NOT YOUR FRIEND and does not serve your interests.
5. I refuse to buy any ILC whose only claim to fame is “well, it’s better than that crap Pentax is doing”.
popeye
9 months ago |smaller? i don’t give a crap for smaller body and lenses. x100 is perfect shape and design.. why is only one on the market . unfortunately has fix lens.
Nat
9 months ago |depend on marketing most people that don’t know or don’t understand about the sensor size but want the interchangeable lens camera that not as big as DSLR will buy Nikon if the price are very similar.
Bob B.
9 months ago |Is there a direct graphical comparison on the web that shows the difference between the MFT sensor and the Nikon proposed sensor? Something like this? http://thephoblographer.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/sensorsjpeg.jpg
Jedd
9 months ago |Strong or weak depends on the street price.
The trend of m4/3 is to dumb down the cameras for casual users, who don’t know and don’t care about DOF, DR and all such nonsense. That’s the majority of the market, which Nikon can attack with smaller purse-size bodies, cheaper lenses and brand name. (2.7x crop is perfect for C-mount movie lenses by the way, which have been used for almost a century, 12.5-75/f1.4 and 10-100mm/f1.6 are not uncommon and cost under $50, imagine the markup possibilities here)
Buel
9 months ago |I’m wondering what sensor Nikon is using. Given the quality of the latest Nikon SLRs it might well be that the Nion mirrorless iq is even better than 43.
Jonathan
9 months ago |I think IMHO, that Nikon targets cineast/movie oriented advanced consumer in need of compact and versatile video camera more than photographers.
The 2,7x cropped factor help to have a greater DOF, everybody knows that. And Fast c-mount won’t help photographers, it allows cineast to create shallow DOF ONLY when they get closer to their subject, which is helpful in indoor condition with poor light condition to make video without sacrifying the greater DOF.
Nikon wants to offer to video enthousiast a serious and even more compact package than GF3, that’s why the rumored price is so high (around 1000$).
DOF mania
9 months ago |actually you’re wrong, the smaller sensor means there’s less DOF, & it’s amazing how everybody doesn’t know that. Also you don’t have to get closer to their subject. If you put a 50mm f1.8 lens on the nikon and stand 10 feet away there’ll be a narrower DOF than in the same situation with a canon 7D
rUY
9 months ago |I think this is another DOA.
JeremyT
9 months ago |Whether or not this eats NEX, NX, and µ4/3′s lunch kind of depends on just how small it is, and just how competitive they can keep IQ. I’ve always felt that the µ4/3 size sensor is the right compromise of IQ and size; Nikon’s decision to have an even smaller sensor I think validates the notion that “bigger sensor isn’t always better” in such cameras.
The initial price point listed here (if correct) is too high, of course, and I’m sure that the lens lineup will start off too small. But remember, this is Nikon, and they can fix both of those problems very quickly.
Scott
9 months ago |They wont be able to put their dslr lenses on it.
dav
9 months ago |It will be very strong, because their sensor will be better. M43 sensors suck (and I say so as a M43 owner and lover, but the sensor is really their weak point, they should use a APS-C and ignore the area outside the 2x crop – a few pixels wasted, but quite a better quality)
PS: admin, I can’t vote because of this annoying IP-based poll: somebody already voted from the IP my ISP gave me.
admin
9 months ago |Sorry, it’s the only way to avoid multiple votings from the same person.
YouDidntDidYou
9 months ago |@dav
I haven’t used my vote, let me know which way you want to vote
jules
9 months ago |All this talk about Canon and Nikon killing the market on day one, once they start doing mirrorless, I’d take it with a grain of salt.
So far I can tell, their domination in SLR does not carry over to compact camera market. I don’t see why mirrorless automatically bends this observation.
There is only that much that brand loyalty can explain, and Panasonic, Olympus, Sony and Samsung all have a considerable head start and (except for Olympus) bigger resources.
Maybe Nikon can steal the top spot, but I like to see it first.
Mictla
9 months ago |I think Nikon realizes the success of 4/3′s and is introducing this to capture market share from M4/3. Now the M4/3 boys need to ensure their marketing strategies are strong even though they were first to the game Nikon has the dominant name in photography over Oly/Pan, but not so in mirrorless and that’s what should be exploited.
The Master
9 months ago |I haven’t seen any real evidence that Nikon has a handle on CD AF yet, in a larger sensor. I remember when I got the EP1 at release and realized it was basically the same focus speed as the E420 in Live View mode and didn’t seem like it was ready for market, as the only AF system. Panasonic was much better and now, Oly is pretty good. I don’t know about everyone else, but after going through the teething pains of M4/3, I’m in no hurry to do it again, with Nikon, even though I used their film and digital cameras for years. I think Nikon made a serious mistake, by waiting so long to get on the smaller and lighter camera train, but time will tell.
Pekka Potka
9 months ago |Nikon going so small will only strenghten m4/3 position as the optimum size. Regarding IQ there has not happened any revolution in physical reality. Therefore this sensor has the same RAW abilities as similar size P&S sensors plus/minus a few percent. Nikon has better introduce razor sharp f/2 and faster lenses and a phenomenal JPEG engine to rise above LX5/S95/XZ-1 crowd. Nikon is a brand or the brand among photographers but this camera should sell like the proverbial hot cakes among people never heard of Nikon.
-p-
DirkL
9 months ago |This Nikon sensor has an area of 123 mm2, compared to the 43 mm2 of the LX3. So the Nikon sensor should be very much better than the LX3/LX5.
It has 55% of the area of the 4/3-sensor.
BornOptimist
9 months ago |This is just speculation of course since we don’t know the details about the Nikon sensor. But if the rumored 17 dia is correct, and the picture of the lens mount is genuine, this will be a 3:2 sensor.
That means the sensor is 14.14 x 9.43mm = 133mm2 (= 2.55x crop, the 2.7x crop comes from the old 1″ with 4:3 ratio).
Since the m43 and the Nikon sensor have different aspect ratio, it’s not correct to compare area directly.
If we compare the two sensors with same aspect ratio (and supposed 17mm dia on the Nikon sensor). The 12Mp m43 sensor in 3:2 aspect ratio is approx 17.3 x 10.3mm. This is an area of ca 178mm2
The difference is then just 34% (m43 larger than the Nikon sensor).
The difference is not significant imo.
I ask again: Do you believe 3 years of technology advance can make up for 34% difference in size? I do!
DirkL
9 months ago |“Since the m43 and the Nikon sensor have different aspect ratio, it’s not correct to compare area directly.”
Why not?
BornOptimist
9 months ago |If we knew how many pixels the sensor had, we could have compared the size of the sensels.
Let for the fun of it, say both have 12Mp, then the sensel size of the m43 sensor is 4.3um x 4.3um. The Nikon sensor will have 3.3um x 3.3um.
The difference in sensel size is then 30% in favor of m43.
BornOptimist
9 months ago |Sorry this came out wrong:
The 12MP sensor is 17.3 x 11.5mm (not 10.3 as I wrote above – how did I find out that?) in 3:2 = 199mm2
The difference in area is 50%
It’s not correct, because there are sensels in area not present on the other sensor. You don’t get the same image with both sensors
DirkL
9 months ago |So you think that two sensors, with the same hardware and area, but different aspect ratios, differ in image quality?
Bob
9 months ago |Anything introduced with greater than 2x crop factor will fail. Micro 4/3′s system is the smallest size in this mirrorless market to consider. Anything smaller and you may as well buy a point and shoot in my opinion.
I think micro 4/3′s future is in the balance currently. I am shocked so far that nobody has brought out the most simple and consistently demanded camera: a small form factor (aka Olympus pen series) with built in electronic viewfinder that is not an after thought/hump/optional extra. Basically a competitor to the nex7 but with the benefit of the micro 4/3′s head start in lens avaialbility and compactness. Once this camera comes to market, more and more people will invest in micro 4/3′s comfortable that there is a future there. This has been especially assisted by the recent announcement already of the X pancake powerzoom kit lens from Panasonic, and the rumoured fast X zooms on the horizon.
Nothing else can compete with micro 4/3′s apart from nex7 as it has superior DOF control with the bigger sensor. The lens line up is hideous though so cannot be realistically considered as a proper compact competitor to m43….yet…. Sony can win massive amounts of people over if they simply come up with primarily a compact kit lens similar to the newly announced X from Panasonic, and secondly a couple of good pancake primes.
Rob-L
9 months ago |In the US there is one aspect where Nikon has a huge advantage. Nikon products are everywhere. You can go into just about any major retailer and see and hold Nikon cameras. Not so with Panasonic and Olympus. I’ve never seen a Panasonic m43 camera at a major retailer. None of the specialty shops in my area have them. Olympus is almost the same way, but they can be found now and again.
This will be a huge factor. Panny & Oly need to get their stuff out to the forefront in North America or they’ll never gain a foothold like they have in Japan. So, in North America Nikon will be a strong competitor.
Kosta
9 months ago |I have a Nikon D7000 and a compact Fuji F200exr. I brought Oly Pen epl2 to replace my compact, but after 3 month I sold it because the size with zoom lens was big and I didn’t take it with me but I continuous to use the compact. If the new 2,7 camera is small like a compact, with much better image quality than a premium compact I will give it a try, it will be my snap shoot camera
Sorry for my bad English
Rutrem
9 months ago |Why > the new mirror less Nikon camera did not have any lens that is compatible with, u will be able to attach an FX or DX lens over the adapter but u have to forget that u will be able to autofocus. So basiclly u would have to use those lense only as old manual lenses, but only wide open.
Kosta
9 months ago |They will intrudes it with 4 new lenses specific for 2,7 crop
pdc
9 months ago |There will be a market for the 2.7x crop factor MILC, provided it has EVF. Superzoom shooters will see an interesting IQ upgrade path plus other benefits of an EVF-based MILC system. Most superzooms use sensors with a crop factor of about 5 or 6. Price will be the determining factor. An entry-level kit price of more than $600 will just not fly.
voldenuit
9 months ago |I think the Fuji X10 (2/3″ sensor, 28-112/2.0-2.8) would be a smaller, faster (light-gathering-wise) and cheaper solution than Nikon’s 2.7x solution.
As long as they don’t replicate the handling issues the X100 had with its buggy firmware at launch.
dac38
9 months ago |Nikon 2.7x is as much of a competitor to M43 as M43 is to the APSC mirrorless (sony).
Annoyance at best – no real IQ competition there.
pdc
9 months ago |That’s nonsense “dac38″. Difference in IQ between m43 and APS-C is not discernible in MOST shots, and at REASONABLE magnifications. It is definitely GOOD ENOUGH. So, get past that nonsense and look at the next most important parameter, PORTABILITY. The Nikon will have portability in spades but will it be good enough?. If you are coming from a DSLR background, that is doubtful. If you are coming from a compact/P&S/superzoom background, then probable.
dac38
9 months ago |So … even of you havent used a camera apart from a M43 system, you mean to say that all of the below reviewers are stupid :
DXO
DPReview
Photokina
EndGadget … and the rest.
In terms of IQ, Nex C2/5N beats D7000 as per DXO,DPreview on DR, low ISO, high ISO IQ. Forget the M43 comparisons . Thats a Joke. A good upgrade from compacts – thats it.
I’ll state again a bit differently. FF IQ > APSC IQ > M43 IQ as much as M43 IQ > any 2.7x crop sensor IQ (Pentax,Nikon whatever).
Stats and numbers next time to prove me wrong. everything else is crybaby fanboy stuff.
steve
9 months ago |all they need is Ashton Kutcher pointing the damn thing and then its gold. it doesnt matter the price or pic quality lol
I wouldnt spend a grand for it and I have a nikon DSLR. Never will by thier P&S cameras.
Rutrem
9 months ago |why anyone should buy this camera over an ultra zoom or high quality compact like XZ-1,G12???
if it would cost 900-1200$, and would not accept FX or DX lenses(because them can not AF with contrast based system)??? It should be damn good with manual lenses to beat Panasonic/Olympus.
This is just prof that the 4/3 sensor size was a right choice for Oly/Pana 10 years ago
avds
9 months ago |I guess Nikon’s brand will sure make this camera faster by quite a few stops.
I mean, in retail channels, of course. (And also on holy war threads like this one)
That alone should make it a strong competitor, at least in the beginning.
alexander
9 months ago |Some Ideas:
- 85% of the pictures are made in daytime – so you want see any difference to other sensors…!!! (compare here http://www.dpreview.com/ ) Sorry guys…
- In low light circumstances one could use a flash or a tripod with ISO 100 (other 8 % is done)
So what will makes it count? It is the size of the system. Advantage Nikon!
But I guess they are not that inovative like Fuji. Look exactely at the X10 of Fuji & one will have very well camera wit 7 to 10 FPS, sweeppanorama, boekh & everything in a very compact form.
so my recomendation for now is the Fuji X10 !!!
So my say it is not good enough but I would like to see the ones who could see the difference on a MONITOR (90% of the cases) between an advantage compact to a DSLR.
DirkL
9 months ago |“- 85% of the pictures are made in daytime – so you want see any difference to other sensors…!!!”
Depends on the contrast. You can exposure against noise, but get highlight clipping, or the other way around.
“- In low light circumstances one could use a flash or a tripod with ISO 100 (other 8 % is done)”
a flash does not work in a large church or concert for example. A tripod could work with low iso, but that’s not a very compact and portable solution. Rather not needing one…
“would like to see the ones who could see the difference on a MONITOR”
The X10 sensor is half the size than this Nikon sensor (60 mm2 versus 125 mm2?).On a monitor, the image of an X10 has to be resampled much earlier if you zoom in to it than an image of this Nikon.
But nevertheless, for an entusiast compact, the X10 seems very good IMHO.
Rutrem
9 months ago |the major drawbacks, for me , of Canikon system are: size,build quality,price,everlasting software/hardware bugs.
dac38
9 months ago |Daytime shooting is more challenging in many scenarios with limited dynamic ranges of 2x,2.7x crop sensors. Blown highlights of sky are just an example unless you use fill flash and neutrallize the contrast a bit.
Joe
9 months ago |“In theory m43 sensors will still have a higher image quality but the smaller Nikon sensor will allow a more compact body and lens design.”
The Nikon sensor is rumored to be 10 MP. With a low pixel count, and Nikon’s skill with image processors, I wouldn’t bet the house on that statement above. A little common sense please – Nikon knows they’d get blasted in the press if they waited two years to enter the mirrorless market, and then delivered a product that didn’t at least match the best of what was already out there. I expect image quality to be quite good, and visibly better than m4/3 at high ISO. Also, with all do respect, your constant cheer-leading for m4/3, and bashing of other manufacturers makes your site seem rather unprofessional, and makes you look like a run-of-the-mill fanboy.
odsagn
9 months ago |its OK, youre new here, I see. if you knew anything about the Admin you’d know he doesnt own any m43 gear. now carry on troll.
odsagn
9 months ago |its OK, youre new here, I see. if you knew anything about the Admin you’d know he doesnt own any m43 gear. now carry on t.roll
Patric
9 months ago |Read your post again Joe. Sounds like you are a Nikon cheer-leader. Pot kettel, you know!
Rutrem
9 months ago |the Photo industry is the only high tech industry that technological advance and innovation is pushed by small company’s.
Its ridiculous that Canon and Nikon always are waiting companys like Olympus,Pentax,Fuji to do something new…even Sony and Panasonic in the last 3 years had donne much greater stuffs than Canon and Nikon.
wii points generator
2 months ago |wow love this site keep up the great work