Panasonic doesn’t deny the possibility of a “big sensor” system. Would require to plan 5 years ahead.
BCNranking (translation here) interviewed MR. Yoshiyuki Inoue from Panasonic. He didn’t deny that Panasonic is considering to create a camera system with larger sensors (no word if this would be APS-C or Full Frame). But to do this they would need to plan a lens road map at least five years ahead.
It’s not the first time Panasonic talks about the possibility of using bigger sensors. But this may be just simple talk and not a hint about a real plan…
Yun
5 months ago |This is not so good for people invest in M4/3 gadgets .
If Sony make it first means the rest will follow accordingly into Mirrorless fullframe .
Have to be smart when come to buying now .
Giulio Sciorio
5 months ago |Believe me Panasonic and Olympus are 100% focused on Micro 43. Most all companies know what’s coming down the pipe in three years and for Panasonic and Olympus is M43. Micro 43 is the number one mirrorless system and since Olympus and Panasonic like money they would never compete with their own product line unlike Sony.
Ulli
5 months ago |+1
Vlad
5 months ago |Sony seems to be doing very well though. It is possible that they are already leading the pack in terms of market share (and that with coming later to the market and having a lesser lineup).
Esa Tuunanen
5 months ago |You mean doing well in amount of overhype…
Because in bottom line they haven’t been doing that well in most of their product areas in last years.
Vlad
5 months ago |No, not in overhype, in terms of market share, exactly as I said.
Dummy00001
5 months ago |> If Sony make it first means the rest will follow accordingly into Mirrorless fullframe.
Nonsense. FF mirrorless was doable for few years now. (If you count Leica in – it has already happened.)
The problem is that going mirrorless provides literally no advantages over SLR FF. While still keeping the disadvantages of the mirrorless. Thinking another step ahead, most FF users are pro/semi-pro/enthusiast level users who would require new mirrorless FF body which matches the SLR FFs in features and performance.
Look at the D800 – how much removing mirror would change it? Not much.
And yes, Sony would highly likely do first mirrorless FF. Or, depending how you treat the A99, it has already happened: A99 is SLT, not SLR.
Sahaja
5 months ago |A FF mirrorless makes a lot of sense to me. For shorter focal length lenses where I have time to compose (landscapes, portraits etc) I’d rather have a smaller, more unobtrusive, camera with very good resolution and IQ.
For action, or situations where I require “reach” and long lenses, a crop format DSLR type camera is fine – better than lugging around a large “full frame” DSLR system.
Right now there is no full frame mirrorless camera – except for the fixed lens Sony RX 1 and Leica. The Sony is expensive, and 35mm equiv is not my favorite focal length – and the price of the Leica makes it totally out of practical consideration for me.
YouDidntDidYou
5 months ago |Very tricky decesion to make, I think Panasonic have been hoping for far greater success against canikon DSLR strange hold, but those types of customers are often conservative/ ignorant and maybe not worth having.Also the recession in many countries has affected people’s buying decisions ie they are less likely to try something new….
I still think a well implemented operating system, more pleasing aspirational design, more customer focus and taking advantage of canikon’s future difficulties is the way forward….
BTW guess who just won dpreview’s camera of the year 2012! Now there is change :-]
Vlad
5 months ago |Canikon customers are “often ignorant”? Get off your high tripod.
YouDidntDidYou
5 months ago |@Vlad
what’s a tripod?
Per K
5 months ago |Well – DPR top ten was:
5 “FF”
2 m43
2 APS-C
1 “!”"
The EM-5 top spot is well deserved I believe – but we are many conservative/ingorant out there it seems.
m43 has grown up now! So should this community! No need for the “smaller brother complex any more!
Different photography requires different cameras. Also different people have different budget for their photo making.
Harry Germany
5 months ago |May be this is the birth of the new lens connection of Leica as well. And than the new Leica M will be similar to Panasonic. If Pana is not stupid they will use a connection, compatible to mechanical Leica M. But better it would be with sensor stabilisation like Olympus
lnqo-M
5 months ago |Maybe this here is reason for sensor on GH3 not is multi aspect, them will come by an large sensor lather anyway.!
Jed
5 months ago |So would they call this new system Macro Four-Thirds?
MikeH
5 months ago |@Jed
Precisely! Macro four thirds will always deliver the BIG picture.
George
5 months ago |Sony puts a lot of pressure on pany
sneye
5 months ago |If anything, the full frame sensor is beginning to LOSE popularity. It seems that many enthusiasts and professionals are beginning to consider smaller systems, seeing that the compromise in image quality is not too bad.
I think Panasonic would make a mistake by entering a shriveling segment of the market dominated by two long established players. Even Sony cannot scratch them there.
Hubertus Bigend
5 months ago |Personally I like the Four Thirds format because of its advantages for tele and macro photography.
But it’s not just image quality, it’s the larger bandwidth of depths of field that lets full frame offer more creative options. What’s more, only a full frame mirrorless system would make the most of what already is an important use case for mirrorless cameras: adapting legacy lenses. Which is why many people are looking forward to Sony’s introduction of a full frame NEX.
On the other hand, Panasonic ought to complete their Micro FT line of equipment, especially when it comes to lenses, before allocating resources to the creation of another whole new camera system.
sneye
5 months ago |Lens size is directly related to sensor size. Just look at NEX, which uses an APS-C sensor. Hence a full frame mirrorless system does not make sense except for the use of legacy glass. One must be seriously attached to his/her old Nikkors, Rokkors, OMs, FDs or Hexanons to spend circa $2000 in order to use them “properly”.
Biggstr
5 months ago |My legacy Nikon AIS FF lens collection works just fine on my MFT Olympus cameras via a Voigtlander adapter (in fact manual focusing is easier than on the native Nikon bodies). I haven’t time to do any systematic testing, but I’m assuming that I’m getting the advantage of a “sweet spot” given the enlarged lens diameter on the FF lenses. In any case, the results are excellent. Given the 2X MFT factor, I’m amazed that I can mount a legacy 50mm lens on my MFT bodies for an effective 100mm field of view with f/1.2 and image stabilization.
Roscoe Tanner
5 months ago |It’s actually other way around, my dear ‘sneye’.
Just look at Sony you mention and start of their foray in full-frame compact system, Canon and Nikon that finally brought the full-frame systems to the masses, FujiFilm discussing a possibility of a full-frame in the newr future…oh how wrong are you with your off-the-cuff and mindless statements.
p4r4b0lic
5 months ago |+1
Vlad
5 months ago |+2
Elf
5 months ago |+3…… mirrorless FF with fast primes. Yes Please.
sneye
5 months ago |We shall see…
Mate Visnjic
5 months ago |We’re seeing it already…
bousozoku
5 months ago |135 format-sized sensors are gaining popularity with people who don’t know any better. There are a load of people who listen to the crowd chanting “Full Frame Full Frame” but don’t really know what it means.
If they use more than one lens, they’ll be complaining about how large and heavy everything is or that they got poor results from the cheaper/lighter lenses.
Esa Tuunanen
5 months ago |Yep, average consumers don’t know a shit about what they buy except that it’s fashionable.
And with fossils claiming smallest succesfull film age retroformat as some second coming of Jesus they’re ready to be relieved from their moneys what they have more than brains.
babola
5 months ago |This rant sound like your own complaining…not the othere’s you’re referring to.
FF systems aren’t for everyone, and contrary to your belief not everyone will buy into it. The ones that do, they are clued up enough to know exactly why they should go for FF over other systems.
Mate Visnjic
5 months ago |+4, brother…
Bite Me
5 months ago |Too little too late Panny. Stick to camcorders. Leave photography to the pros.
wendy
5 months ago |Realy?! I wonder if you would have ‘advised’ Sony with the same suggestion few years ago?
Don’t be silly, Panasonic and Leica partnership is stonger than ever these days, one makes fantastic photo sensors and processors another top of the line glass.
Riley
5 months ago |as it happens Panasonic are very interested in video
probably more so than the ‘pros’ that gave you FF and screwed you
Zetton
5 months ago |Mr. Inoue is the former Minolta manager.
Most people think Sony took Minolta, but I’ve never seen ex-Minolta engineer at Sony interview,
but Mr. Inoue constantly has the interviews as Panasonic. At least, his “team” was rumored to moved to Pananonic, not Sony.
Vlad
5 months ago |I think there’s always been a clear hint of Minolta legacy with Sony. Especially now with the RX series.
Riley
5 months ago |Minolta glass, just like OM cannot be duplicated,all the staff are long gone
nobody is going to develop a format based on the availability of second hand glass, lenses are a big part of the profit plan.
Vlad
5 months ago |I am not sure what is your point. I said that there is some MInolta legacy in what Sony is doing. I don’t see why they need to duplicate Minolta glass.
Riley
5 months ago |firstly, is is impossible for them to do so
secondly, manufacturers struggling to get a lens range together may welcome alternate glass, but when the range is more complete begin to push the alternate glass out of the picture. Sony have done this already to Sigma lenses
bart
5 months ago |That is a correct observation.
Sony took over Konica-Minolta’s camera BUSINESS, but not the people, and they are still paying Minolta for the intellectual property rights on many technologies.
This should be rather evident also, as Minolta owned their own glassworks and made absolutely excellent lenses as is evident from them having been a second source supplier for Leica. Looking at Sony however they have to go to Carl Zeiss, and now Olympus for their optics. Yes they do carry former Minolta optics also, but the only ‘development’ Sony did on that since they ‘took over’ is cosmetic.
Much of Minolta’s team of camera engineers did not move to Sony, some stayed at Minolta, many left for other places, and the team as a whole no longer exists.
rUY
5 months ago |That means…. the chance that they sell or shut down their camera business is higher than the chance they develop a larger sensor. Better using OM………
Anonymous
5 months ago |Panasonic and Olympus make awesome camera bodies with fast autofocus, swivel touchscreen and EVF. Most of the lenses have silent autofocus motor. The small sensor size is what’s keeping me away since we prefer more dof controll and low light performance and dynamic range. I wish they can make more pro caliber cameras with larger sensor
Jerry_R
5 months ago |G1 style camera, allowing me to attach Leica M, Zeiss ZM, Voigtlander lenses – and maintain shallow DOF on wide angle, true 35 1.4 – a dream
Rutrem
5 months ago |eeaa
5 months ago |..they should think about first to make new m4/3 cameras to work with only electric shutter, with contninous liveview under exponation, compatibility with wireless flash, and shutter relase, then make a godd@mn 14-80mm f2.5 under 300$ …cheers
wendy
5 months ago |I believe you’ll start seeing a slowdown of 4/3 systems in the near future with makers of cameras housing more established sensors dominating the market.
4/3 had a lot to go for it in it’s early days and not so distant past, but somehow got neglected along the way.
Vlad
5 months ago |I believe there is no future for the 43. It will be addressed with adapters on m43 for some time and that would be it.
lnqo-M
5 months ago |I wonder 4/3 will go over to this “new system”(Super35-K8/UWHD), and them need start now soon if system can be finish to 2017.
Riley
5 months ago |I think this what Panasonic are on about, Super35
Bora
5 months ago |I just need LX7 with 1 inch sensor.
FooFoo_VS_M43
5 months ago |Imho he is telling 5 years from now.
Vlad
5 months ago |Seriously, could it be more vague with even more negatives? “doesn’t deny the possibility”? Obviously, there’s nothing on the horizon.
Per K
5 months ago |To step up from m43 to APS-C would not be much of a step. If Pana goes for a larger sensor, it needs be “FF” or larger.
Unfortunately Pana seems off track with their camera strategies at the moment compared to not only Olympus. The GH3 is made unnecessarily big it seems to me. The GX1 is a great camera as was the GF1. Same form type but with built-in EVF and I will be a customer.
Think Pana needs success in m43 BEFORE developing a new sensor format camera: 43 was a mistake, if m43 also will appear to be another Pana camera strategy mistake it will get a “looser” stamp on the brand. The FF market is crowded buy the big and successful. Neither is the FF market very large. In a five year perspective Pana would need to develop and sell with profit something much better than say D800 an sell it for 1200$. Can they do that?
BdV
5 months ago |Gee. Does that mean they’re 5 years behind of sony?
Vlad
5 months ago |Four
. FF NEX is apparently coming in an year.
Martin
5 months ago |NEX FF may be coming, but certainly not backed by the outcome of a 5 year lens roadmap. Just to be first, Sony may feel tempted to reiterate the NEX approach: Deliver exciting bodies, wait whether they catch on, than start investing into a lens roadmap.
Daemonius
5 months ago |Hm.. Im saying that for some time now. They need Super 4/3 sensor. Bigger than FF, with ability to crop to regular 3:2 FF. I guess 1:1 aspect ratio would be about right (36×36).
Preferably mirrorless..
plp
5 months ago |What I would like to see is Sony, Panasonic and Olympus come together and create an open standard full frame mirrorless mount. The “coopetition” on mft has proven that creating an open standard and competing based upon improved tech and quality is the best thing for consumers
JS
5 months ago |Absolutely, look like 4/3 is flourishing
Vlad
5 months ago |M43 is not an open standard.
W. C.
5 months ago |Panasonic can hardly get m43 right. Now they want to go for larger formats? Deal with your own backyard first.
Panasonic are running scared because they’ve tried so hard in the last couple years to gain marketshare, released so many cameras and lenses, but still lose out to their feeble m43 partner Olympus, and can only compete against Sony with firesales and massive discounting.
What’s wrong Panasonic? m43 strategy not working out? Whose to blame then, but yourself?! Get your act together, stop wasting resources, stop squandering customers’ goodwill, stop releasing overpriced garbage, get your sensor development and image processing sorted out, stop over relying on sofware correction, get your distribution network sorted, make products available when you say they will be, put a built-in EVF in the GX cameras, put your best multi-aspect sensor in every camera line– this would be a massive selling point and differentiation with other brands.
Chances of Panasonic listening to anyone but themselves? Close to zilch. All the best for FF, Panasonic!
Olympus Panasonic Corp.
5 months ago |We are here to say to our users that we told you so. We always knew m43 was not enough and we will soon abandon it for a larger format. For all those who have stupidly bought our euipment, too bad, you got what you deserve for believing in us. You thought our equipment was overpriced amateurish? wait till we release this new larger format. Of course we will eventually abandon it s well, but it’s not our loss but yours.
roger48
5 months ago |In my opinion, and I speak for me alone, further competition for full frame from Panasonic or anybody else is a waste of resources. I am of the view that the recent releases by Canikon and Sony are the last hurrahs as the format declines gradually to a tiny minority sport, rather like medium format today.
Advances in sensor quality will render 35mm full frame pointless and I think most camera users would rather have smaller and lighter gear to carry.
Just my opinion.
JS
5 months ago |FF is an expanding market.
Vlad
5 months ago |As long as it is expanding into cheaper cameras.
Riley
5 months ago |instead of pushing for a premium market,
FF is phishing for a consumer market
consumer FF cant be met without reduced feature sets and less reliability
Vlad
5 months ago |Of course it can. Technologies mature, production costs get cheaper, etc. What are the missing features of the D600 compared to the old D700? It actually has more. Same goes for the 6D/5D mark II. In a couple of years, it will get even cheaper.
Riley
5 months ago |what sensor costs in particular fight is the defect rate
that argument rests with Sony, quite out of C&N hands
nobody with any logical stream of thought believes the build quality of D3100/3200 is par to D4. When you go for high volume production you make necessary concessions to camera construction. The QC problems nikon users have been reporting over SLRs reflect this perfectly. If these consumer SLRs are to get cheaper expect more issues, they are after all just consumer grade
Newbie Here
5 months ago |HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS!!!!!! CHEERS TO BETTER CAMERAS THIS 2013!
tomas
5 months ago |my personal opinion is that Sony will definetly go to FF mirorless(interchangeble)…and only future will tell if Oly/Panasonic will follow. Anyway …in 2 years…if you you should choose which camera to buy m4/3 or FF mirorless ? …and if Sony will make the body “small” …and there will be existing good value lenses for it…you hardly will choose smaller sensor. But as I have deep pockets and like the size advantage of m4/3…I would still love the m4/3 …
Hard decision for Oly & Pana managers which way to go…but looks the Pana will jump to Sony train . I think Oly will in 1st phase make “only” FF lenses for Sony microFF
Bob B.
5 months ago |All I would like to see from both Olympus and Panasonic is small pro-type bodies with major MFT format sensor with large resolution and DR improvements. I am not looking for a full-frame from either one of these companies….but everyone has different needs or wants.
Jerry_R
5 months ago |I still see NON-SENSE FIGHT – what is best: u43 or FF. It is WASTE of time.
Both formats serve for DIFFERENT needs in my opinion.
I personally would like to get FF EVIL not due to “less noise” or “better DR” – but ONLY due to DOF on wide angle, eventually 50mm. That is all.
Finally – we could attach houndreds of legacy manual lenses – and see their behaviour as they were designed for, not just center crops..!
Anonymous
5 months ago |Big square sensor for legacy glass!!!
Riley
5 months ago |the only legacy glass worth picking up is Leica R
Leica wont go with anything other than 3×2
W. C.
5 months ago |FF mirrorless makes sense for those who want to use their legacy glass without crop factor. But for those starting from scratch, I don’t understand the obsession for FF? Oh, yeah, for more of “that professional look”. Okay. Because you need to throw out the blackground for those low light black cat in the coalmine shots for facebook and flickr?
m43 and APS-C with the right lenses provides enough narrow depth of field for most sane purposes for most people already IMO. m.Zuiko 75 f/1.8 on m43 and Fujinon XF 35 f/1.4 already give plenty of background separation from what I see. Upcoming Panasonic 42.5 f/1.2 for m43 and Fujinon XF 56 f/1.4 will add further low light and DOF capability for these respective systems. If you need narrower, well, get your FF. Better still, go MF. Don’t forget to buy a matching wheelbarrow and wagon trailer.
Seriously, the stupid thing you will see with FF mirrorless is dumb dads and soccer mums with FF NEX etc with a kit lens 24-85 or 28-120 f/3.5-5.6. and nothing else. Because the f/1.4 or 1.2 for “that professional look” isn’t going to be affordable. Certainly not pocketable either. And you can be sure there won’t be cheap AF lenses for these systems. The manufacturers are going to go all out to make maximum dollars while they can. Expect quality FF mirrorless lenses to be $1500+.
For those discontent with what m43 and APS-C currently offer, be careful what you wish for. Because if manufacturers abandon the crop formats, leaving FF only, the cost of gear will be driven up greatly. Don’t think the manufacturers will do you a favour and give you budget options. Look at Sony Cyber-shot RX1. Oh, but I’ll buy legacy lenses off ebay. The cost of those will go up as well when FF mirrorless is announced.
So unless you really need or can afford a FF mirrorless setup to match what you already have, I don’t see the need for people to jump ship en masse when FF mirrorless arrives. Better start saving up or selling up if you do. Your forum signature will get a nice upgrade. Pity the crop factor plebs with their massive DOF! See you all on flickr downsized to
Wendy P.
5 months ago |Not everyone is as arogant and prickly as yourself, W.C.
And by reading your pointless drivel, not very knowleadgable on the matter, either. So why don’t you go back into your tiny little black hole and hide from the public. Who knows, maybe one day you get to your senses and accept the world around you the way it is.
Mate Visnjic
5 months ago |+1 …Wendy.
The guy’s so full of himself it’s bordering on nauseus. What a dumba$$.
There’s another like him frequenting photo rumor forums preaching his rubbish who calls himself ‘genotypewriter’. Probably the one and the same guy…
The Future of The Camera | Fotograf Joacim Lundin
5 months ago |[...] och eventuellt större sensorer för att utveckla E-M5 vidare. Panasonic ryktas även de komma med större sensorer men inget klart om det gäller APS-C eller [...]
Sahaja
5 months ago |APS-C is too close to m4/3 – so full frame would make more sense. In a few years “full frame” sensors may be as cheap as APS-C or m4/3 sensors are today.
Further integration of electronic camera components and better batteries may also make it easier to make smaller camera bodies with a full frame sensor.