Next Olympus camera likely to be a PEN (Techradar)
Image on top: The Olympus E-P3
In an interview with Techradar (Click here) Olympus Japan’s Toshiyuki Terada said: “Looking at product lifespan, I think the next issue will be a new PEN.”
That isn’t really a surprise as we all expect new PEN cameras before the end of the year. I take the chance to remind Olympus that we don’t need many new cameras and more redundant products. Think easy, a new entry level cheap PEN and a a more advanced PEN are more than enough. In short…a new E-Pm2 and an E-P5 (having the tilting LCD of the E-PL3). My two cent: A new 12 Megapixel sensor based on the current Olympus E-M5 sensor technology would be amazing!
Links to the current PEN and OM camera list:
Olympus E-M5 Amazon.cn, Digitalrev, eBay.
Olympus E-P3 Amazon.cn, Digitalrev, eBay.
Olympus E-PL3 Amazon.cn, Digitalrev, eBay.
Olympus E-PM1 Amazon.cn, Digitalrev, eBay.
Something else: Tsutomu Omori, managing director of Olympus India has been found death (suicide). My condolences to the family and to Olympus. More info at Indiatimes.
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Gianluca
4 months ago |“…A new 12 Megapixel sensor based on the current Olympus E-M5 sensor technology would be amazing!…”
I think the same, given the sensor size, wil be better the sony next
pete
4 months ago |not happening! How many new sensors do we see? They need economies of scale….. hence both Nikon and Canon tend to send the sensor down the tree. So you might see the E-M5 sensor in the E-Px whatever it is.
frankly I’d rather not see a new iteration every 6 months bragging about worlds fastest autofocus which then can’t track anything! Go slower on new bodies and produce the lenses we want! i.e not a 12-60 f3.5-5.6 zoom.
think primes and think small. and think f2.8 zooms… my opinion fwiw
Ernest
4 months ago |I dont understand , 12-50mm is perfect for me !!!! For 1 side u have macro in the other wide , to be macro the optics need to control DoF , f4,5 – f 11 …… Etc
And for been angular 12mm ( 24 in a 35 mm format) is really cheap, goes to something like 399€ THATs AWESOME CHEAP!!!!! for been against dust & water .
Of corse THE 12-60mm 2.8 is something else but is really huge and the price goes around 999€
Milo
4 months ago |But the 12-60 f/2.8-4.0 is 4/3, not m4/3… An equivalent version for m4/3 should be lighter and smaller!
Zach Wagner
4 months ago |And the 12-50mm isn’t huge? For an m43 lens, the damned thing is massive. I can’t even say what it looks like on the front of the E-M5, but let’s just say it could make films if it wanted to.
I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t make a faster zoom of that size or smaller. It doesn’t need to be fixed, imho. Just faster. What about a 2.8-4/4.5? Or sakes alive, a 2-3.5/4. I had a Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 lens for my Nikon D300s, and it had macro (albeit not great macro), and it was the smallest zoom in my bag. We’re talking about a smaller sensor, so the lens really doesn’t have to be that big, people.
I gotta agree with pete on this one. A 12-50mm 3.5-5.6? Meh. Sure it’s weather sealed, and if you buy it with the body it’s a good price, but still, meh. m43 is in dire need of fast zooms. Otherwise the lens line is in pretty good shape, especially with Oly coming out with the 75 and 60 macro.
Jolyon Smith
4 months ago |When it comes to “faster” lenses, sensor size doesn’t enter into it.
The f number on a lens indicates the minimum ratio of the aperture opening diameter to the lens focal length. e.g. for a 50mm lens to have a max aperture of f2, the aperture has to be opening up to 25mm. That imposes a physical constraint on the lens and has nothing what-so-ever to do with the size of the sensor that the optics of that lens are then attached to.
It goes without saying then, that if you want fast zooms on m43 then the lenses that are required will contradict the entire ethos of the m43 system… small and light. They will – by necessity – be big(ger) and heavy(er).
This effect is exacerbated by the basic physics of optics – the shorter flang distance of the m43 format benefits lenses of short focal lengths, allowing them to be smaller and lighter, but that advantage rapidly disappears (possibly even becomes a disadvantage?) as the focal length increases.
Plus, those fast zoom lenses you want already exist in a format that can be attached to an m43 body – i.e. 43 lenses + a 43/m43 mount adapter.
bean5y
4 months ago |Sensor size DOES come into it!
A “normal” lens on m43 is 20-25mm, not 50mm. So the aperture can be smaller at the same field of view but have the same speed (compared to larger sensor).
Ross
4 months ago |Don’t confuse the physics of all lenses & the advantage of 4/3′s & micro 4/3′s where a 50mm lens on a 35mm sensor is equivalent to 100mm on 4/3′s (& micro). The aperture per lens length ratio remains the same whereas the 4/3′s lenses can be made half than length & hence a lighter lens achieves the same as the full frame (35mm sensor) one does. I believe we won’t really see large aperture zoom lenses on the micro 4/3′s bodies because of the large size needed to physically achieve it & this is where the E5 (& the next update of it) is still a more suitable combination. The E-M5 with its complete grip will certainly help but the PD-AF or alternative system to achieve fast focus is still to come for that to be fully useful with the larger & especially, the SWD lenses.
krugorg
4 months ago |I didn’t understand this comment…. didn’t we already have a 12mpx Panasonic sensor?
Anonymous
4 months ago |i’m not after fast AF i’m after image quality which the Zuiko lens is known for. if my e-3 stops then that’s the time i get the new olympus top camera. maybe next year. who knows.
bilgy_no1
4 months ago |Simply not happening. The race is towards more pixels and we only see improvements in IQ as that happens. Most likely scenario: before the summer, Olympus will announce new PEN models with the sensor of the E-M5 in there to keep them competitive. Obviously there will be some other improvements too.
43234242
4 months ago |yeah what the world needs another medicore pen with a few more art filters….
im happy i can pick up an e-p3 for 200 euro then….
good enough as third cameras beside a dslr and a nex7.
bean5y
4 months ago |How many different systems do you want! Or do you just stick to the kit lens?
Agent00soul
4 months ago |I don’t think the E-P3 successor should have a tilting display. Instead it should be made as compact as possible (but still high quality), to differentiate it from the E-M5.
awaler
4 months ago |+1
Dannecus
4 months ago |Agree 2!
Bob B.
4 months ago |+1 also the E-P4(?) should include the 16MP sensor in the E-M5 as so to offer varying body styles with current image technology.
NativeFloridian
4 months ago |+1. No tilting screen… and no included viewfinder. Would like to see a very high res lcd on the back, though.
NT
4 months ago |Y E S !
ihateidiots
4 months ago |Olympus is very good at milking their fans what with their every half year iteration of the last technology. The short time period between the E-P3 and the E-M5 is proof of that.
blohum
4 months ago |why? do you feel compelled to upgrade when each new model comes out? do your old cameras stop working? I’m still using my E1 and E510 and have had years of use out of them.
E-1
4 months ago |I use an EPL1 (with 20 and 7-14) and E510 and make pictures that make me happy. I still use a – quite old now – 50-200/2,8-35 as I love this lens. Made some very nice portraits with the 50/2 recently. How is Olympus milking me?
Leu
4 months ago |They aren’t milking you, there are always exceptions. That the OM-D cost 400 Euros (the EP3 actually costs more as well) more than the GH2 sort of is says that Oly is milking the customers for every cent they can get.
PS
4 months ago |You have a free choice to buy GH2 GH3or GHx. They are not pushing their cameras down your throat.
As E-1 said use the cameras to take great photos and not to show you have the latest!
Digifan
4 months ago |The E-M5 doesn’ t cost more than 400 euro’ s more.
The GH2 was higher priced when released.
It’ s lame to compare MSRP of a new product with the discount/street price of a 1,5 years old camera.
ihateidiots
4 months ago |It is milking because they obviously do not care about producing a well-thought out camera but instead keep rehashing the same damn thing excepting a tweak here and there. In a way, it is an utter waste of engineering and manufacturing resources, but hey, apparently they will keep doing it.
So what they have done with the EP-3 is release the same damn camera with the same old 3 year old sensor, and then within half a year, release an EM-5 with a new sensor etc. Now if I were a person who were using an EP-2 for nearly 2 years and just upgraded to an EP-3, I would feel fething cheated and would start asking WHY the company did not release the sensor earlier. I bet you the company will release an EP-4 with the new sensor come 2nd to 3rd quarter, less than a year since the last EP-3.
blohum
4 months ago |If I were a person using an EP2 I would look at the EP3 and think “does that offer enough of an upgrade for the money”… chances are that improvements in autofocus speed and a built-in flash would mean not.
Personally, I think that only now with the EM5 is there enough of an improvement over my E1/E510 to think about upgrading.
Jed
4 months ago |A lot of people upgraded from the EP2 to the EP3. I did and can tell you the EP3 is much nicer to use than the EP2.
- jed -
Zach Wagner
4 months ago |Meh, I hear you, but we’re all perfectly capable of making our own decisions as consumers. If someone isn’t willing to do the proper research and find out if the differences between the E-P2 and E-P3 are worthy enough to warrant an upgrade, then I suppose they deserve whatever they get. Someone coming into the line can just buy the newest camera and have the confidence they’re getting the “best” version.
I personally didn’t want the same sensor, so I didn’t buy an E-P3. It’s as simple as that.
And it’s not like Oly is the only choice we have, either. If Oly customers want faster AF with better sensor tech, there’s the Panasonic G3/GX1. Sure I love Oly, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not like I’m losing the lens line by jumping companies, which is exactly what I did. GX1 should be arriving today. No E-M5 for me when I can have fast AF and 16mpx right now, for much cheaper.
If in a year or so Oly releases a pimped out PEN that beats the IQ of the GX1, then I’ll jump back.
Of course, this assumes one isn’t worried about losing IBIS, which I’m not.
NelsonC
4 months ago |Fully agree with you!
Booz of their milking approach, I decided not to buy the em-5. I’m very sure towards the end of next year, something more significant will be introduced to the market.
l.coen
3 months ago |Never mind that , how about the fact that they still havent released a pen camera with a built in evf? The sony nex7 has one, the Nikon v1′s got one…even the old pen film cameras had one, and that was like almost half a century ago.
Ernest
4 months ago |Hell yeah man !!!!
I got one really old, zuiko 50mm 1,8 , from a OM-10, made in metal and glass with aperture i focus ring, MADE IN JAPAN , with my ep3 , and that’s GOD ITSELF ^^
Geoff
4 months ago |50mm 1.4 on an E-P2, wunderbar, also use 135 2.8 & a 200 4.0. As they are all the fast version also use the 2XA occasionaly. Gorgeous set up.
Miroslav
4 months ago |Maybe that’s what they ( and you ) think, but I’m not upgrading until they put everything I want in new camera. I already skipped two generations that came after E-PL1 and I’ll skip more if they don’t deliver. I don’t know whether there are people that buy every new camera that comes along. I don’t know any and I’m not one of them.
Boooo!
4 months ago |“Olympus is very good at milking their fans what with their every half year iteration of the last technology.”
Olympus is the new Apple.
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Olympus is the new Apple, NICE
Bob B.
4 months ago |But, if Apple is like Olympus..the iPad would then have been designed to look like a clip board and the iPhone after a transistor radio?
lnqo-M
4 months ago |You mean, hear on my Pen or call my Pen, maybe both.
Boooo!
4 months ago |No smiley necessary on your end
I suggest that you investigate the link between Apple and Braun, or should I say Jonathan Ive and Dieter Rams.
Mr. Reeee
4 months ago |Hardly.
@ BobB…. EXACTLY!
Maybe like a Texas Instruments scientific calculator. Red LEDs and all..
Bob B.
4 months ago |LOL! I like the new Oly retro..it is fun and tech savy….but I can’t help but make fun of the mirror box on a mirrorless camera. Judging by the popularity of the design…most photo “enthusiasts” these days consider cameras as a fashion accessory first and a photographic tool second, though. It will be interesting to see what the GH3/Pro
offering(s?) that Panasonic is going to fire back with…
Can’t wait!
Zaph
4 months ago |“but I can’t help but make fun of the mirror box on a mirrorless camera”
Sure, but did you see what they put in there? Almost seems made for it.
Mr. Reeee
4 months ago |No kidding.
Have you seen all the hipsters carrying around 1970s SLRs? If it wasn’t their dad’s or granddad’s, you can buy one dirt cheap. The film costs more!
It’s actually a pretty interesting, anti-digital phenomenon.
Bob B.
4 months ago |(not to mention processing fees!)…..the trend goes along with Raleigh Super Course bicycles AND vinyl. (although after listening to MP3′s on an iphone…a record, moving-coil cartridge on a belt-driven turntable, tube amp and some decent speakers may sound like GOD is in the room!)….
hmmm…why am I selling my Hasselblads? LOL!
Archer Sully
4 months ago |The Raleigh Super Course is STILL an excellent bike. And unlike the carbon wonders of today (I’m talking about you, Cervelo!) it will still be rideable in 30 years.
Bob B.
4 months ago |What happens to carbon fiber in 30 years….(GULP! ….my bikes are CF!
)….LOL!
Isn’t CF inert??????? or does it break down because of stress?
Pei
4 months ago |If CF plane are not falling out of sky why should your bike?
John
4 months ago |mirror box… really… oh, right that hump thing on top. That would be a pentaprism not a mirror box that bit would be between the lens and the film/sensor. Mirror boxes aren’t retro btw the are use in all current DSLRs its called form follows function. as for the retro thing in general the best retro designs were the best applications of form follows function at the time and in some cases those solutions are still the best. Oh right the hump i believe its actually full of rather useful stuff like the diopter system and the EVF sure its shape is a nod to the past a past that was a very elegant solution that has few equals. So before you “make fun” do your homework please
Leu
4 months ago |yeah but olympus has never released something revolutionary. Olympus is the new apple-circa-pippin
hahahaha @bob b.
clipboard ipad i would buy.
Digifan
4 months ago |Yeah, IBIS, dustbuster, flattop DSLR(E300 E330) wasn’t Olympus’ innovation huh?
I can remember when everybody was making fun about SSWF, now everybody has more or less copied it.
I can even remember further back multispot camera’s.
Sorry you guys are really funny, Olympus has many times broken the ice for the rest of the industry, and you tell me they are not innovating, sorry but I gotta laugh.
Rocky Pesik
4 months ago |I agree with you.
Sensor dust reduction from the very beginning. No ne else thought of that.
E-300 is the grandfather of digital PEN, and E-330 is the father of PEN. Well, look at NEX 7. It looks like a slimmed down E-330, right?
Live view for dslr and then get rid of the mirror. How many people laughed when Oly came with live view in E-330? At least 75% of those people who laughed back then, use live view and video feature (which became possible because of live view design) now, Im sure of it.
In body IS. This new IBIS will be at least on par or even more superion than in lens IS. And we dont have to spend extra money on each lens.
Mirrorless interchangable camera. ONLY Sony, Pentax, Samsung and Nikon followed. Oh, Canon im sure its coming as well. Nikon: I Am 1 click ahead. Olympus: yeah, I Am two years ahead.
Art filter? The others are queing up as well copying it.
Auto Focus, was the only thing they underestimated back then, causing OM series died. Now the OM-D has the fastest AF.
Geezzz… Put all those features with FF sensor and lenses, Oly would kill the rest of competition. Oly doesn’t make FF not because they can’t. Its because making Full Frame camera (read: giant sized) doesn’t suit Oly’s vision: to make cameras as small as possible, as easy to use as possible. That is the mission that Oly carries out, and I highly admire that. The whole evolution from E-1, brick design DSLR, PEN, are all about that.
ihateidiots
4 months ago |The past is no long reflective of the present. The present is no long reflective of the past.
xmort
4 months ago |I wouldn’t blame olympus for that. What you see is normal when a new disruptive technology hits the market. Many of the systems needed for successfull mirrosless camera are just being developed. Manufacturers cannot wait till they have all the parts and pieces together, they have to get the market share and make some profit to put money back to research. Thats why you can see so many new iterations/generations of PENs. As the technology matures, the development slows down and the cycle will take longer. Look at the Olympus DSLR line – many complain that there was no consumer dslr since E-620, just Pens. But DSLR is a mature technology and honestly there was no major improvement in IQ in the PEN line so far to justify update/upgrade of their dslr line. With their new IS and a new chip that may change however.
DonTom
4 months ago |@Xmort. Yep, just imagine when they do sort out PDAF/CDAF hybrid systems, and the earlier m43 lenses aren’t optimised for it! Ohh, the pain, I have thousand of dollars in the system, and now it’s “obsolete”. LOL, dudes, it’s the nature of electronics, improvements arrive, and your old stuff isn’t new anymore. Funny the way it works.
krugorg
4 months ago |Meh. I think it is the nature of the digital camera industry. At least they still release new, excellent lenses.
Bob B.
4 months ago |+1 (the only thing I have my eye on after all the OM fanfare settles down is the Oly 75mm f/1.8 glass grenade!).
ihateidiots
4 months ago |No, the only companies who indulge in this silly reiterating the reiterating is Sony and Olympus and to a lesser extent, Panasonic. Clearly, losing lots of money yearly still hasn’t taught Olympus to shepherd their engineering and manufacturing resources but instead continue this ridiculous nonsense.
blohum
4 months ago |erm… so are you trying to say that every Canon DSLR is a huge improvement over its predecessor? that every Nikon DSLR has a unique never seen before feature?
43234242
4 months ago |my 550D has still 85% of it´s worth when i sell it on ebay… after 16 month.
my e-pl2 is worth 35-40% after the same amount of time.
and with the e-pl4 release it will be less very quick.
face it.. with a new model every 9 month oly gear is becoming worthless very quick.
ronnbot
4 months ago |“my 550D has still 85% of it´s worth when i sell it on ebay… after 16 month.”
Well good for you, but I don’t buy something based on how much it will sell for on ebay 16 months later.
My E-PL2 only cost me <60% price of the T2i, but has been far more useful, so the T2i went to my dad. Didn't get the E-PL3 after but it was nice to have the option. My E-PL2 is still working 100% and will keep it even if I decided to get the E-M5 or a new PEN as my wife loves the E-PL2. If it breaks, it won't be a big lost and a replacement (another E-PL2) will be cheap to buy; this wasn't the case with my previous DSLRs.
To me, the E-PL2 is money well spent, regardless of its current value one the secondary market.
43234242
4 months ago |yep.. poor people who bought a e-p3 a few month ago.. only seeing that it will have no worth anymore.
oly is making the $ worthless even more….
Ross
4 months ago |If they didn’t bring out new models then they would be (& have been) accused of still producing old technology. Thy’re damned if they do & damned if they don’t.
Camajan
4 months ago |I think we’ll get 16MP and tilting display this fall.
Fall 2013 they wil add an EVF in the design for the top model.:-)
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Yes i think this also, but if we will se a EVF in build in Pen can this be it more compact VF3 to Olympus.
Yun
4 months ago |Yes , we only need a new PEN if there is a significant breakthrough technologies otherwise please don’t come out something with minor improvements .
Image quality that on par with current top mirrorless is a must otherwise just forget about it .
awaler
4 months ago |My E-P”next” would be like E-P3, but
- low cost
- as small as E-PM1
- remote control
- sensor as E-M5
- AF-speed as E-M5
- IS as in E-M5, with automatic focal width setting
- needs no tilt display
- needs no built-in EVF
- stronger built-in flash
- live bulb
- motor zoom operation compact style (from camera) if lens allows
Pete
4 months ago |hey ihateidiots:
It’s up to you….
I still use my E-p2 and I am happy so far. If you need the best quality on market, you should change the system, but if you like to take good pictures with a small kamera/lens you should stay and wait for a kamera, that is really better then the one you use. Better in your own eyes.
Maybe the next PEN is good for me, if you own a E-P3 wait for the next in 2013.
And enjoy the spring with your nice kamera, witch is better then a 6000,- Nikon from 2005.
Forget idiots, search trees and trails
Rinaldo
4 months ago |@ awaler
what you want is the mini.. PM line
Rinaldo
4 months ago |Admin, you got the point…. hope they’re listening..!!!
Ferdinand
4 months ago |My ideal E-P5 would be a compact version of the E-M5, and it should have no viewfinder. In other words it should have:
1. Same level of control as E-M5
2. Same or better image quality
3. Tilting OLED display
4. Hotshoe, but no internal flash
5. Possibility for attachable viewfinder,
but no built-in viewfinder
6. As compact as possible
7. As quiet as possible
8. IBIS of similar quality as the E-M5
9. AF of similar specs as the E-M5
Ah, maybe I should stop dreaming…
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Many of IS sensors is in hump, but maybe Olympus make room for this in a Pen body also.
Cedric L
4 months ago |… Or maybe you should order a e-m5!!
lnqo-M
4 months ago |He is maybe only hump afraid.
Miroslav
4 months ago |“a new entry level cheap PEN and a a more advanced PEN are more than enough. a new E-Pm2 and an E-P5 (having the tilting LCD of the E-PL3)”
I don’t agree. Four different lines are OK.
Basic: E-PM1 should stay around for a while with constant lowering of prices, to take the place E-PL1 now holds ( a sub 300 EUR entry level model ). It should be refreshed with new editions, new colors, even colored kit lenses and flashes for camera joshi
. In the next generation maybe they should add touchscreen, flash and lose the hotshoe – that’s what P&S upgraders think they should have.
Futuristic: E-PL5 should get 16Mpx sensor, new IS and AF and some kind of grip. Keep the tilt screen, add touch. Announcement: June 2012.
Rangefinder: E-P5 should get 16Mpx sensor, EVF, new IS and AF, smaller articulated 16:9 screen ( to accommodate EVF and keep the size roughly the same ) and better grip. Keep the flash ( make it bounceable ), shrink the overall size a bit ( to NEX-7 level ). Announcement: November 2012.
“A new 12 Megapixel sensor based on the current Olympus E-M5 sensor technology would be amazing!”
Not likely. Olympus uses one sensor for all their current models. That’s how you lower the price of your cameras if you buy sensors from others
.
Archer Sully
4 months ago |@Miroslav: Not likely. Olympus uses one sensor for all their current models. That’s how you lower the price of your cameras if you buy sensors from others .
And even if you don’t (buy from outside, that is). The wafers and the fabs still cost money, and you still have to balance the books, so even if you have your own fabs you still have to deal with volume, so its far better to maximize the numbers, rather than letting your foundry subsidize your cameras (or what have you).
onlyme
4 months ago |My hope is that the next E-PM will have a 4:3 LCD screen, a built in flash, a hot shoe, some sort of hand grip or textured finish and reliable Image Stabilisation.
Oh yes, one more thing. Those blue power LEDs are far too bright
nicwalmsley
4 months ago |What about XZ-2?
lnqo-M
4 months ago |What by XP-1, then?
Maxp
4 months ago |so why 4 is not liked.
R
4 months ago |how about a rangefinder-style pen with built in viewfinder, like nex7 or xpro1? it’s not rocket science.
bean5y
4 months ago |How about bring back the 35 RC/RD and offer an alternative to Fuji X100.
- Call it E-R1
- 21mm f/1.7 (or faster!) fixed lens as sharp as possible Super High Quality
- E-M5 sensor
- Mode Dial (with drive mode lever) where film winder is on original and E-M5 style dials on shutter release side.
- Fully articulating touch screen (with leatherette on back)
- Hybrid viewfinder with Zoom focus assist.
- Weather and Dust Proof
- US$650
Soeren Engelbrecht
4 months ago |I’d definitely love to see an XA-D
MJr
4 months ago |Cool. But with a fixed lens, why not put the aperture on the lens and a shutter dial on top. All ‘modes’ are available with just that, making the ‘mode dial’ a redundant middle-man.
bean5y
4 months ago |Of course, the aperture should definitely be on the lens. The aperture ring could be a snap-lock design like the 12mm so that you can have stopped or stopless aperture control or programmable function.
The top dial could have shutter speed but I think the mode dial is necessary.
pelex
4 months ago |+1
ght
4 months ago |I hope they update the EPM1 and include the ability to use live view to see what pics in bulb mode look like. I think that is so cool. And give it the improved image stabilization. I don’t need the weather sealing and everything else. But those two things, I’ll wait till that trickles down to lower priced cameras.
Kylberg
4 months ago |The thing is if an EP4 should have built in EVF/OVF or not. To me a VF is a must, but many doesn’t seem to care. The problem is that an EP4 will be expensive and those who afford/ are willing to pay are likely to have the same preference as I.
So built in VF yes! Hybrid like Fuji? I may buy one of those, but for the OLy/Pana customers no hybrid VF is high on the wishlist.
Why in the world go down from 16 to 12 mpix? The only thing that happens is you loose resolution! Some, like Admin, advocates low pixel count. At the same time when he does serious still photo, he uses a Mamyia MF film camera – that’s resolution.
High pixel count is good if:
- Often crop duing post process
- Print photos – even on A4 higher pixel counts prints better
- If you like much detail in your photos.
Yesterday I read an Leica M9 with 50mm Summicron test at Imaging Resource. In paralell they shot with a NEX-7 with the ill-reputed 30mm macro. Comparing results the Leica had “better punch, but the Sony had far better resolution”! That is extreme cost 18mix FF no AA-filter against medium cost 24 mpix APS-C and AA filter…..
- Bigger sensor means better high ISO more than bigger pixels means better high ISO.
- Printed higher resolution images shows less noice
Esa Tuunanen
4 months ago |> – Bigger sensor means better high ISO more than bigger pixels means better high ISO.
For certain tech level bigger pixels always means better high ISO because of cleaner higher SNR signal.
Just compare ISO 1600 shots of Canon G10 (14.7MP) and G11. (10MP)
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/G10/G10A7.HTM
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/G11/G11A7.HTM
G10 is still worser even if you downscale them to ~1.5MP
Remember that you can’t make party cake out of shit no matter how much of shit you have.
Kylberg
4 months ago |Another path for Oly to take is upgrading the XZ with a m43 sensor and an(even better) lens.
Rumors say that Sony will make one based on APS-C and a pancake zoom.
Think Oly has the competence to do a camera like this just by bringing existing technologies together. Canon made a try, but that one is too big, heavy and expensive.
This could be the ultimate “second camera” for pro and enthusiast – and walk-the-dog camera for me.
ght
4 months ago |Would love to see an xz2 with collapsible lens and four thirds sensor.
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |An XZ with a larger MFT sensor, what would it add, that the MFT currently doesn’t provide?
Isn’t the MFT all about diversity, with it’s two camera vendors?
Canon with the G1 X is trying to lure Nikon, but it’s all about that the G1 X is a guinea pig for Canon to test the water before launching their own CSC system.
Zach Wagner
4 months ago |Well, if the lens was kept extremely fast, as it is on the XZ-1, and the lens were collapsable, a la the Panasonic X lenses, then the form factor would still be quite small, and it would then be one of the better options for P&S as far as low-light ability with good IQ. I think it’s a really good idea. I loved the XZ-1, but it also was plagued with noise pretty much from ISO 400 up.
No need to carry more than one little camera around, not even any extra lenses… I think that would be really nice.
Keith
4 months ago |Next E-P5 should be a E-P3 with E-M5 sensor, IBIS and art filters.
If they put a EVF in it, it better not make it any bigger. Happy to lose the built in flash for a EVF as I haven’t once used the flash.
Oh and I want peeking.
Marlux
4 months ago |My unrealistic hope is that Olympus will produce an ultra-light, super-small camera with a built-in viewfinder but no display. Exhausting all means of miniaturization would not result in an overly ergonomic tool, but in the ideal pocket companion.
Kylberg
4 months ago |Great! A digital Oly XA. Had an XA2 with three focus settings (close, middle far away), be replaced buy AF. ISO setting and exposure compensation. The XA2 had no exposure compensation, so I changed ISO value instead (no change of film)
I also had a Minox in the same size. They were in the 200g weight and very small, even compared with today’s compacts.
MP Burke
4 months ago |As it happens I have an Olympus XA2 on my desk and I see that its depth is less than 40mm. Remarkable when you consider that includes a 35mm lens. When you open the camera you see that the rear element of the lens is only a short distance (I would estimate less than 15mm) from the shutter.
The bespoke non interchangeable lens is what makes it possible to make a camera this small.
There were no interchangeable lens 35mm rangefinder cameras as small as the XA in the film era and I find it highly unlikely that an interchangeable lens digital camera could be made with the 4/3 sensor that is the same dimensions as the Olympus XA or XA2. There has to be a certain distance between the rear of the lens and the shutter and then there is depth of the sensor, anti-shake mechanism and screen.
Chad
4 months ago |Skip the interchangeable lens and let’s go back to basics with a proper XA reincarnation!
43shot
4 months ago |Yes, I want a small camera. If I can take it with me most of the time I will have more opportunities to shoot. Give me something in a GX1 package or smaller. Ergonomic is useless if I don’t have my camera with me. Guess what, if it is really small then many consumers will buy it meaning lower costs and more development money, more compact lenses. I know at least 10 people that say they would carry a GX1 but would not carry a Pen or OMD style because it is just too big. I want to take pictures of real life happening not staged photos of Amazon boxes and silly photos with no interesting subject matter. I don’t want people to see my camera I want it to be as hidden as possible. I don’t do video but having 24P would certainly open some interesting creative opportunities particularly if I have my camera WITH me:) If I had a GFX and not a GF1 I likely would be set for a while. Sad to say but I will be getting one of these because I can take it with me all the time and it will likely get used the most when light permits.
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-Stabilized-Wide-Angle-3-2-Inch/dp/B0075SUJ4W/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I197YBIB2IOX5C&colid=1YIV7LSDPHEOW
DonTom
4 months ago |@Marlux. I fully agree. An EVF makes the LCD/OLED display redundant. I very rarely use the display on my E-PL1 since I got the VF2. And it would make it so much easier to make a compact body, the display adds 3-4mm at least to the body depth.
A little m43 body, EVF, no display, no flash, flush control dials across the top. Perfect for a little travel camera, use with the pancakes and the 45/1.8.
Ulli
4 months ago |so in order to view the menu,you need to do it via the evf? not very practical. Though I like the idea, at least a 1,8″ lcd would still be needed for those settings
Marlux
4 months ago |Well, on my G3, the rear display usually stays reversed, I use the EVF for the menu. Looks stupid but works nicely.
DonTom
4 months ago |@Ulli, I use the VF2 to access the menu most of the time. I am getting long sighted, and it is easier to use the EVF. I rarely “gimp” my images, leave that for the computer.
Really looking forward to the E-M5, looks like the button layout is better than my E-PL1. I won’t need to take my eye from the VF to find the menu button, hopefully.
Jolyon Smith
4 months ago |“An EVF makes the LCD/OLED display redundant”
Really ? You clearly don’t do much macro work or any candids or any creative perspectives (overhead, groundlevel etc).
Oh, but I forgot… this is the “overendowedPandSrumors” site, not a serious photography site.
As you were….
DonTom
4 months ago |I have a tilting EVF, currently…..
Marlux
4 months ago |@Jolyon Smith: No need for insults.
Sure, an EVF-only camera has disadvantages in some situations, but you cannot seriously claim that one could not do “serious” photography with it. Serious photography is way older than tilting displays or any displays, or any viewfinder for that matter.
In fact, a digital camera with just a EVF could look exactly like an analog camera and thus bring old times back. There could even be a menu option to turn off the playback capability!
Esa Tuunanen
4 months ago |So photography must have been impossible in film era without travel TV in camera’s arse.
Problem is nowadays displays aren’t anymore utilitarian tools but oversize marketing displays which destroy controls and ergonomy by eating all space like some cancer. Result is overall lack of ergonomy and lacking controls in too small space meaning smaller bodies which suck and proper controls and ergonomy body being bigger than it could be.
And that is surely detrimental to serious photography.
In “Point and pray that automatics works” aka Point&Shoots I can accept those oversize displays but in cameras supposedly offering proper controls displays are way past the point where their size becomes inversely proportional to camera’s functionality.
Dannecus
4 months ago |Obviously we can’t all agree on what we want to see in a new Pen, so even if Olympus does read this thread it’s not helping much.
It seems we all ideally want an EM-5 crammed into a Pen size body, but are willing to accept many and varied trade-offs to get the size we want.
Admin, how about a poll for EM-5 features we want to see in a new Pen, find out which ones are must have and which can be dropped to reduce size / cost?
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Good idea.
Do
4 months ago |Come on, people here don’t want to miss any of the features, they want the same features in a body half the price plus a new full frame beating sensor and a compact f2.0 kit zoom.
Do
4 months ago |To quote George Clooney, “what else?”
sneye
4 months ago |You’re right about the need to restructure the Pen line. Three different cameras are not necessary. I wonder which line will be killed. Ideally, I would like to see an E-PL5 and an E-P5, both with tilting screens and no viewfinders. The current difference between E-PM and E-PL is too small to matter. Another issue is the pricing of the E-Px series, which will have to drop to about 750$ considering the price of the E-M5. That means that we can’t expect a lot of the new technology in an E-P5. It should be essentially an E-P3 with the new sensor and a tilt screen (with the same “old” IBIS and 3 fps).
Mr Hipsta
4 months ago |I’m also puzzled over the fact that Olympus have three Pen cameras in their range that are so similar. How about keeping the E-PL3 and maybe the E-PM1 as budget alternatives and make a brand new Pen E-P4 rangefinder style camera with built in viewfinder and that nice 16 Mpix sensor!?
Geoff
4 months ago |First I’m confused here, are we talking E-P4 or 5, seeing as current model is E-P3 and to my knowledge no E-P4 has been announced, let’s not run before we walk. Yes I feel the next iteration of the E-Px should have the 16 Mp sensor, updated processor and built in EVF rangefinder style. Those talking smaller than E-Px surely mean a new E-PM/Lx, the current Pen line up has a good level of choice, so either Olympus abandon one of them in deference to the OM-D, to maintain three u4/3rds bodies, or make improvements in each of the Pen bodies appropriate to cost and placement. So yes an upgraded E-P3 becomes 4 with the new sensor, built in EVF and IS, upgraded processor. I doubt the IS as included in the E-M5 would fit in the E-PL as one writer has suggested, so let’s go with sensible suggestions, not with Santa Claus wish lists.
lnqo-M
4 months ago |We talk about E-P3 successor anyway.
Rocky Pesik
4 months ago |historical facts:
1. Never before Olympus released a step down in resolution for their newer cameras, regardless which product class
2. Olympus always put their key feature (identity) in every newer cameras (dust reduction, live view, IS, art filter) regardless which product class
So, my best bet for next PEN is:
1. 16 MP sensor
2. 5 axis IS
3. touch screen for E-P5
4. ability to change curve
5. 9 fps for E-P5
6. no EVF though. not yet, at least
7. 11 art filter and their variances (E-P5)
8. live time and live bulb function
9. FAST AF and 3D tracking
flash
4 months ago |I expect all of that, but the 5 axis IS. It is to big for now, in a year or two maybe. You are right Olympus does not downgrade less models, for the sake of downgrading them; only to meet price points.
ght
4 months ago |Rocky, any guess as to when we’ll see the live bulb and new IS in a much lower priced camera- like a EPM1 replacement? Also, what is meant by “live time”?
Rocky Pesik
4 months ago |live time is for speed priority, more or less the same with live bulb
Rocky Pesik
4 months ago |Im pretty sure live bulb and 5axis IS will be present in EPM2
Camaman
4 months ago |I see lots of folks wanting E-M5 IBIS, I think this is pretty much impossible even in E-P3 body.
Why?
The new IBIS uses advanced sensors located in the “hump” of the EM5 and the whole IBIS assembly and sensor is to big for current PEN body.
I think even Olympus mentioned this size issue in one of the recent short interviews.
Anyway, lesser IBIS, No weather sealing, new sensor, tilt screen and OLED EVF in 2013 are more than enough to keep them in the game for the next 2 years.
Mr. Reeee
4 months ago |Olympus could add a giant “eyebrow” like the Fuji X-Pro-1 (or whatever it’s called) to hide the IBIS and EVF. It looks more like Boris Karloff’s Frankenstein forehead to me.
Keith
4 months ago |Someone a few weeks ago mentioned a blowjob port. Maybe we could have a Japseyebrow?
Keith
4 months ago |.
lnqo-M
4 months ago |You is only
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Yes, hupe is not only for EVF.
Rocky Pesik
4 months ago |I think, with PEN body without EVF and internal flash, Olympus can squeeze the IBIS in.
BLI
4 months ago |Techradar:
“It seems pretty unlikely that any new PEN will feature an inbuilt viewfinder as Olympus is maintaining that the OM-D is a separate line-up from the PEN series, with the bigger form factor which allows for the viewfinder being one of the key differences.”
Since a built-in EVF is a requirement for a future camera for me, this tells me: do not wait for the new PEN, but get the E-M5 instead
. In spite of the “hump” (which anyway is lower than the clamp-on EVF on the PEN).
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |So the new PEN E-P4 might become a PEN MAX, approaching the size and weight of the Fujifilm X-1Pro. It will, if stuffed with:
•Faster shutter speed
•5-axis IBIS
•Battery BLM-5 1620mAh / 1220 mAh BLN-5 / BLS-5 1150mAh
•EVF
•skip the diminutive internal flash
•dust & splash proof
•extra power battery holder HLD-6
lnqo-M
4 months ago |But better price so E-M5?
Narretz
4 months ago |The camera you are describing is the EM-5.
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |I know, but how to product differentiate with more than the obvious form factor? Weather sealing might be the unique selling point for E-M5 though? Well, it’s more of an Olympus problem to figure out. Still, we can have our wish lists, hopefully with some influence!
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |Does the E-P4 need both integrated EVF and tiltable LCD?
The first is great for still photo, the latter is great for video. Olympus, think it out…
safaridon
4 months ago |Admin please give us some more information or rumors if any on any new Pany models in the works if you have any? On this forum we are being submerged by primarily Oly rumors or news even after the OM-D.
Yes Oly likely coming with a new version of EP3 and EPM1 with OM-D with new sensor as will Pany with GX1 sensor in GF3 and GF2. I find it hard to understand why Oly would want so many concurrent models in production or circulation for economic reasons other than to try to increase sales leading to increased lens purchases. With so many 1 year or 6 month models still available at fire sales at low profit margins also hurts new model sales? While this strategy worked the the past year or two when the Pens were more popular and less competition, it has not recently in either Japan or US outside of preorders for the OM-D.
PS
4 months ago |“Admin please give us some more information or rumors if any on any new Pany models in the works if you have any? On this forum we are being submerged by primarily Oly rumors or news even after the OM-D.”
The fight here is not of Oly vs Pana.
When was the last that Pana brought out a whole system like the EM5. Or the whole new concepts found in the EM5?
It is just that a better product will always get more attention.
Narretz
4 months ago |“better product gets more attention”? Admin will give us all rumors he gets, but when he doesn’t get any, should he make up some or repeat stuff that has been reported? This is a rumor site, not a children’s birthday party
leonedolci
4 months ago |No tilt LCD on EP5 pls. That will fatten the body.
Yes NEX has tilt LCD while keep small. But Olympus is not Sony.Every one has its own game.
My wish list for EP5:
EM5 sensor.
Parity AF speed to ep3 is enough.
dual dial
Manual video exposure control. and good video quality pls.
Click-on EVF is fine.
Muuuuuuuch smaller than EP3 pls.
Archer Sully
4 months ago |Sony (deliberately) sacrificed IBIS in order to make the body as thin as it is. Given a choice, I’ll take IBIS.
Charles
4 months ago |+ 1
Keith
4 months ago |+1
And bracketing +\- 3 stops. Not a poxy 1 stop….
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |+1
Especially with all the upcoming premium primes!
There has always been a backup solution with Panasonic OIS, however mostly zooms.
MP Burke
4 months ago |Until there is any evidence to show otherwise, it seems to me that the E-M5 is using the G3/GX1 sensor and I suspect that after a while, that will become the entry level sensor.
I would expect that the next Pen cameras will have the 16MP sensor by default, since I reckon the 12MP one will be discontinued this year. Cameras with the 12MP sensor will remain on sale for a while, as cheap models to tempt people into the system.
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |12 MP isn’t that bad, after all both the Nikon D3 & D700 settled here.
Less requirements on buffering, storage will make it a great plateau for entry level, definitely!
Pedro del Río
4 months ago |Maybe Olympus should work with Lego to develop camera bricks that would allow everybody to build their favorite camera, with respect to size, form and functionalities.
PS
4 months ago |They wouldnt be happy with that either…LOL
David
4 months ago |The ONLY thing that I feel will be featured in the new Pen line is the sensor (e.g one similar to the EM5 but sticking to the 12MP). First off I don’t think that the will ever give the Pen series a in built EVF due to the fact that this means the death of the $200~ VF2 or VF3. Remember Olympus is a company that wants to make money and these EVFs are compatible with three of their cameras EP EPL and EPM. Secondly I feel as if the 5 axis IS will be available only on the OM-D and E series cameras (Since Olympus can’t kill their E series yet). There is simply no room in the Pen body (a similarly sized camera to the EM5) for the new IS and thus the IMO pleasing retro hump.
As a speculation I feel as if the EPM2 will kill the popular EPL1 at the bottom of the Pen line :’(
The EPL4 will become a EP3-ish and breaking away from the EPM series; thus pushing the EP4 up a class.
The EP4 will have the control dials like the EM5 and this would be a more prosumer model.
And lastly I know that 4 is unlucky in the Asian cultures of Chinese and Japanese but I highly doubt that Olympus would avoid using that number (e.g OM4)
What do you guys think?
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |You may have got it right with respect to the external EVF for the accessory ports, but the competition will have an advantage with integrated EVF into a compacter model, NEX-7 & V1.
Vivek
4 months ago |Is the EM-5 available for purchase yet?
The next camera..LOL.
Camaman
4 months ago |So true…
And I am officialy in m43 world. Just got a PEN E-P3 today!:-):-)
My short DSLR Nikon era is over…
Zach Wagner
4 months ago |Congrats! You’ll love it.
Ulli
4 months ago |+1
avds
4 months ago |Having just 2 pen models could be easier for m43 afficionados to swallow, but Olympus is unlikely to cut down the number of models yet because as the market is still growing and hasn’t settled yet, they’re trying to carpet-bomb it with an excessive variety of models in order to not miss any potential customers. Crystal-clear model differentiation will work against any MILC producer at this stage; their model line-up should be confused sufficiently so as to match the confusion of this emerging market without trying to enforce a well-defined ideology on unprepared customers. Same for Panasonic who sells GF2 along GF3 and G3 along GX1 and doesn’t bother.
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Anyway there have choice, and what is bad by this.
Chad
4 months ago |Hey Olympus,
How many PEN cameras do you need?!
Since you are intent at digging up old camera lines, how about a proper Olympus XA revision with a m4/3 sensor? And don’t you dare try and bastardize it with a zoom!
Voldenuit
4 months ago |With the EM-5, Olympus has released more m43 bodies than sony has released NEX bodies. And aside from the EM-5, they’ve all used the same sensor (which was itself recycled from the E-30, ca. 2008). Scary thought.
Imagine how much further along the system would be today if Panny & Oly hadn’t wasted so much time rerelasing minor updates to their bodies and endless revisions of kit lenses.
EDIT: Panny has actually released 2 more bodies than Oly has, but they’ve also had 4 different sensors in the same time (including the multi-aspect sensors in the GH1 and GH2).
Charlie
4 months ago |Bring on the new PENs!!!
reverse stream swimmer
4 months ago |PEN MAXI
PEN LIGHT
PEN MINI
Remember the ILC market is rapidly growing, so it’s a well positioned scenario to offer this variety. You could even expand the variations in each level!
Charlie
4 months ago |No, no … those sound like feminine hygiene products.
lnqo-M
4 months ago |Olympius
4 months ago |@ admin: “My two cent: A new 12 Megapixel sensor based on the current Olympus E-M5 sensor technology would be amazing!:
@ Olympius: “My $0.02: a new 18 to 20 megapixel sensor based on the current Olympus E-M5 sensor technology (which is really just a Panasonic 16mp sensor with some tweaks) would be REALLY amazing!”
More megapixels is never a bad thing, except they fill up your hard drive faster.
- Olympius
awaler
4 months ago |Being the lucky owner of an old Zuiko 85mm F2 (fantastically sharp at F4) I crave a real good stabilisation system, which would be so helpful for manual focussing.
Also, the combination of real IS with the Panny X pancake zoom could make a lot of sense. Could become the best semicompact camera ever if Oly do their homework.
bbking
4 months ago |“a new E-Pm2 and an E-P5″
The Lites sold better than the minis and the PENs sold better than the Lites. But that might just be Australia.
Get rid of the minis, I reckon and just have PEN, PEN Lite and OM-D.
Wayne Morellini
4 months ago |The feature of the future is 4k video. 96-144mbs h264 inter consumer (possibly 10 bit 4:2:2) 50/60p, and 200mb/s+ 12 bit+ 4:2:2+ , 48/50/60, and 200mb/s + RAW bayer, pro. Both levels should have uncompressed HDMI/displayport aapnd RAW Bayer out, and 3D. Basically, they are mostly selling camera after camera, with dwindling difference between them and oreviouse models at the moment, and cell phones are gobbling up the low end stills space. Video is the big discernible feature, filming in 4k (super HD or bigger 4k) allows 4k still frames to be extracted of suitable quality. In the pro market, 8k stills (32mp) is the other ambition.
Hifinut
4 months ago |Panny Leica 25mm/F1.4 gets a rating from DxOMark. Highest m43 score so far.
link:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Micro-Four-Third-Lens-Reviews/Panasonic-Leica-Summilux-DG-25mm-f-1.4
ArtP
3 months ago |“I take the chance to remind Olympus that we don’t need many new cameras and more redundant products.”
I think redundant would be another PEN.
On the other hand, when was the last time they came out w a consumer grade E-xxx. Not expecting one, but just saying…
James
4 weeks ago |I’m fine as long as they make it small and have IBIS. BUT I’m pretty sure a lot of the stabilization mechanisms required for the IBIS is in the “SLR hump” of the E-M5, so I don’t even know if it’s possible. Oh well, let’s hope technology makes further advancements!