New Olympus patent discloses a “G3″ alike camera (and three m43 lens patents).
UPDATE: I don’t know yet if the japanese friends from Egami (Click here) did make a mistake and may misunderstood the japanese patent. The camera on top looks more like a superzoom camera than a new m43 cameras.
P.S.: After three years and fifteen(!) m43 cameras there is still no compact camera with built-in viewfinder on the corner a là Olympus 35SP (Click here to see that cam)! Maybe it’s just me wanting that kind of cameras? Looking at the preorder success of the Sony NEX-7 I believe the answer is no, I am not the only one!
And than we have three new Micro Four Thirds lens patents for the Olympus 10mm f/2.8, 12mm f/2.8 and 12mm f/2.0. These are the specs:
| Example | One | Two | Three |
|---|---|---|---|
| Focal length f [mm] | 12.187 | 12.284 | 10.711 |
| Fno | 2.051 | 2.838 | 2.857 |
| Angle [deg] | 91.2 | 90.4 | 98.3 |
| Image heights [mm] | 11.15 | ||
| Back Focus [mm] | 15.041 | 15.092 | 14.536 |
| Length [mm] | 60.667 | 47.592 | 50.036 |
| Minimum focusing distance [cm] | 20 | ||
| Aspherical [surface] | Four | ||
| Configuration | 11 images in 9 groups | Nine elements in 8 groups | Nine elements in 8 groups |
I guess that this are just three different prototypes of the newly announced Olympus 12mm f/2.0 lens. Don’t think we will ever see a 10mm f/2.8 lens.
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NiKo
8 months ago |Still no rangefinder-like body in the pipe? Come on Olympus… I can’t believe you can miss such an opportunity, are you blind?
MJr
8 months ago |No just broke …
Frederic Hew
8 months ago |I for one welcome this – I find that it’s a functional design that emphasizes functionality as opposed to ‘retro appeal’. For one, it suitable for both left and right handed (eyed) people.
Finally, an E-XXX replacement (than a G3 lookalike). To make sense, it definitely needs a good sensor and support for 4:3 lenses! I hope Olympus will not disappoint (though I kind of doubt it).
littorio
8 months ago |This [censored] DSLR design has nothing to do with the functionality. It is a real “RETRO” design which means that camera tries to look simular to “old” DSLR-s. That is retro in its worst meaning (old, non-functional, etc.).
The true modern and functional design has already been shown. By Sony. NEX-7 model. Both types – DSLR-like and “bricky” could be functional, it depends only on manufacturer’s good will.
Main problem with m43′s ergonomics is attempt to look simular to something (DSLR’s, rangefinders, etc.). They should give users more space for controls. This can only be done by moving the baoynett as close to the left side as possible, leaving all right side for a good grip, buttons, etc. Like it is done on NEX cameras…
frosti7
8 months ago |+1
what littorio said
Gianluca
8 months ago |..but u can’t rally say nex 5 have good ergonomics…it’s really difficult to hold it well and playing with the buttons
Frederic Hew
8 months ago |Well IMO the Panasonic G3 is designed with the lens mount as close to the left as possible,leaving just enough space for the lens release knob – if you moved that knob somewhere else (e.g. to the lower right corner) you couldn’t gain more than 8 mm or so.
There is not enough space for placing controls to the left of the mount, but this is simply because the G3 is too small to accommodation them.
Had the (small and uncomfortable with larger lenses) grip been a bit bigger, I would be rubbing against the lens with my fingernails.
This rumored design makes sense for another reason – there is demand for an E-XXX replacement. This camera would appeal to anyone who would like to be able to use his current 4:3 lenses on a camera with a better sensor and equivalent performance otherwise.
In fact, an alternative design would be in the vein of a smaller E-330 or E-1 (in a future pro model?). I would find such a camera very interesting, but it would not look like a RF.
Dummy00001
8 months ago |> there is demand for an E-XXX replacement.
As an E-620 owner, chances of me buying another camera from Olympus are very slim. (Solitary voice.)
The dilemma is… Should I buy a new body for a dead system? Or should I stop beating the dead horse and switch to a more popular system?
Say, new Oly 43 body comes at 600€. For 600€ I can get e.g. D5100 kit. OK, Zuiko lenses I have are better than the Nikkors I could afford. But the better sensor can make even cheaper lenses useful. Forget about DOF, since shooting larger than f/5.6 with a generic APS-C zoom is not recommended. But then, better RAW support in 3rd party converters is a nice bonus – compared to waiting a 6-12 month for the new E-XXX being supported by Adobe or SilkyPix or Aperture.
Would I upgrade my E-620 or jump the ship? Good question. I would highly likely jump the ship: there is no point staying on a ship where I have a luxury cabin – because the ship is f***ing sinking.
pisto
8 months ago |I have been waiting for a m43 camera with built-in viewfinder since the X-100 announcement. No way. We have had no less than 5 actual cameras released and a couple of them are in the pipeline, but no one has actually meant great thing as an advance of what was done in the past.
I went to the shop today and got myself an X-100.
exacta
8 months ago |The people running the company were too busy swindling money from it that they neglected to give more thoughts to product design.
Falk Kuebler
8 months ago |I was looking for the GX1 (for substitution of my GH2, which I increasingly find too large), but won’t go for it because of the missing built-in EVF. So I will instead go for the G3.
People like the author may not like the G3 form factor, but my feeling is that this form factor is not so much intended to “simulate” a classic DSLR, but that it’s just a pragmatic form factor for incorporating an EVF plus a reasonably decent flash. Both together don’t fit overly well into the rangefinder style of camera, even though the NX-7 may be a counter-example.
Pete
8 months ago |There would be a very easy solution: a second Port an the left and a perfekt syled rangefinder beside the flash! In that way you could have a E-P3 wiht additional two centimeter! I would fit in your hand, like the XA with flash, it would look professionell and it could work superb!
But I told this to Olympus Japan and nobody was listening, maybe someone of you have a litte influence?
ADMIN HELP US!!!!!!!
Duarte Bruno
8 months ago |Wouldn’t it be easier if they just made a port hub?
If there was a real accessory market (like remotes, gps units, leds flashes, well you name it…) this would already be in the shelves.
dumbo
8 months ago |i agree, this seems so obvious, to have a 3rd party make a hub so we can use both viewfinder and flash sync on gf1.
seems that panasonic has not given port enough lifespan for 3rd parties to be interested, panny keep changing the specs.
Elniorg\'s Journeys
8 months ago |You know what? I’d bet a pretty hefty sum that the GX1 announcement will actually boost the sales of the G3 because most of us who had been waiting for the fabled “m43 rangefinder styled pro camera” have understood that this is just not happening now. Personally I’ll get mine in 2-3 weeks…
Marc
8 months ago |Re: G3 form factor being pragmatic, not DSLR-simulating:
Exactly. I have a G1 and an E-P2, and while the E-P2 with a small lens like the Panasonic 20mm is great for vacation, I actually MUCH prefer shooting with the G1, because it’s far more comfortable in my hand, particularly when shooting at odd angles. The larger body allowing for several extra physical switches (the drive mode switch is wonderful) is also nice, and the articulated viewfinder is worth twice the weight and thickness it adds to the camera.
In terms of DSLR, in fact, I find the average DSLR to be too big in my hands–sort of bulky and awkward–while the G1 (and the GH-series, which is what I really want) is just about perfect. The E-P2 isn’t nearly as comfortable when taking more than a few shots, and I think (though haven’t tried) that the Oly Mini would be even worse (I dislike using compacts for the same reason).
Not saying there isn’t a huge market for smaller m43 form factors, but I personally hope there’s always at least one or two “big” bodies available in m43 (preferably with some bonus “pro” type features), because I’m likely to always want one around for the comfort and added controls–feels better, and faster to adjust settings when I’m shooting manual.
I do agree completely that it’s bizarre that none of the m43 compacts have a viewfinder in the corner. Heck, why isn’t the viewfinder on the bulkier Panasonic form factor out on the edge, too? Your nose won’t hit it over there, so it makes drastically more sense, yet there it is smack in the middle where the old mirror and prism forced it to be…
Eric
8 months ago |+1 for a DSLR-like m43 with built-in viewfinder that I can use with sunglasses in the snowy mountains.
NiKo
8 months ago |Well, snowy mountains with bright sun means big needs in the DR area, not sure m43 has the best suited sensors for that :/
Duarte Bruno
8 months ago |2 words: Exposure Bracketing!
Another 2 words: size advantage!
Miroslav
8 months ago |Right: compensate (relatively) low DR with multi shot stitching, (relatively) bad high ISO with fast lenses and work on camera features for a change PanOly!
Gianluca
8 months ago |..and most of all a good photographer that can handle every situation without thinking about DR..;)
dumbo
8 months ago |yes, for me bit depth is way more important than dr. if they just made the bit depth 16bit it would be much better for raw.
polaroid instant has a dr of about 5 stops. you learn to light accordingly
Frederic Hew
8 months ago |Why do you need 16bit? Do you know of a sensor that offers 16 stop DR?
Tobias W.
8 months ago |Why do you need dynamic range for snowy scenes?! Snow is basically white and has little to no texture visible on a picture. The most common practice on any camera is to overexpose on the meter reading as the meter is probably been thrown off by the amount of bright white from the snow, so that blows out the snow on most cameras anyway.
Oliver
8 months ago |It´s funny. Many years people long for smaller cams. Then, cams are becoming smaller and smaller as the E-PL3. Then, people start to complain about missing flashs, missing viewfinders, small tilt display and missing grips. They even start to buy and fix these extras separately.
Then Oly seems to create a new body including flash, viewfinder and grip – and people again start to complain about size.
V
8 months ago |True, people are never happy and if they are then it cost too much
Mr. Reeee
8 months ago |+10
AND it has a HUMP! OMFG, the humanity!
AND the VF is in the middle! The sky is falling!
Give it a day and they’ll be the most beautiful things an Oly fanboi has ever seen! Maybe they’ll finally STFU about Panasonic M4/3 cameras.
If Olympus ever releases it, it’ll be LONG overdue!
A 10mm f2.8 would be great if it were something like the 45mm or ideally, more pancakey?
flash
8 months ago |Mr Reese,
I hope there is a 10mm f2.8 also.
Looking at the lens diagram it is half the length of the 12 mm, so a pancake maybe indicated. As it is the equivalent of a FF 20 mm it is significantly different then the 12 which is FF 24. Much better IMHO for outdoor images.
My question about equivalents is is it the vertical or the horizontal equivalent when we discuss 43 vs FF? As the ration of 4 to 3 is not the same as the ratio of 2 to 3 FF. Not knowing this will be my excuse for shooting with the wrong lens in the past month
with 43.
Eric
8 months ago |There is one problem with your cameras must sacrifice features in order to lose size argument; we have all seen the NEX-7 now. Clearly EVF’s don’t require a hump. Further, Sony has managed to fit both an EVF, 3 control dials, a flash, a grip, and a hot shoe all into a camera about the same size as an E-P3 (perhaps even a touch smaller actually). Either Olympus/Panasonic engineers aren’t trying hard enough, or they’re letting their marketing departments tell them to make Canon Rebel clones. I suspect it’s the latter.
Oliver
8 months ago |Oh yes, indeed. But do you really want to pay 1349 euros for a small camera with cheap kit lens? I definately don´t.
Eric
8 months ago |Actually, I already have, but since it has been delayed due to the flood I may cancel it and get the GX1 if Panasonic manages to impress with it. As far as the 18-55mm kit lens, Ive looked at a lot of NEX-7 samples. There is a self portrait taken with it inside a hot air balloon on DPR’s site that is especially impressive. It may be no Olympus 12-60mm, but its only costing me $150. It delivers adaquate performance for that price.
Kyle
8 months ago |True – I was surprised how small the NEX7 body is, considering the built-in EVF. That said, it is quite a bit deeper than the E-P3 (a lot of that grip, but still) and does not have IBIS.
TheEye
8 months ago |Maybe he’s shooting things other than white bunnies on snow.
spam
8 months ago |This is the mFT-camera I’ve been waiting for – provided they get it right. Meaning good AF, not too big. flexibel LCD and at least the G3 sensor.
Duarte Bruno
8 months ago |If those were your sole needs you have just described the G3.
I’m sure you meant to add IBIS.
spam
8 months ago |I didn’t mention IBIS as I assumed that was given with any Olympus model. G3 sized would be nice, GH2-sized also. Maybe something in between with a slighty better grip and larger battery than G3 would be ideal. I just hope they don’t go for something too big like an E-30 replacement. They seem to like big bodies for the small sensors.
JesperMP
8 months ago |That does not LOOK like an interchangable lens mirrorless. It looks like a super-zoom.
I also TOTALLY agree about the lack of an m43 body with the EVF in the corner. Panasonic and Olympus had 2 years headstart over Sony. And they have wasted the opportunity. Now Sony’s NEX-7 will steal the sunshine.
lnqe-M
8 months ago |Yes, i support you.
Jorginho
8 months ago |That is what I thought yesterday too, with the GX1…..you had a headstart and lost it. I know Sony is japanese too, but I have seen more examples (though cannot mention one just lke that…) of japanese companies making really strange descisions.
Well…Toyota had the Corolla line. Highly succesfull. Than: the car remains virtually the same but they call it Auris…And the sale plummets. I don not know the whole story behind it, may be there was some plausible reason or the Corolla was already doing less well, however: sales went down the drain with the name change.
In the case of the rangefinder it seems so very very obvious, given the possibilities a small mirrorless design with a largish sensor has, to develop one and Oly nor Panny came up with it.
Only thing I can think of is there focus on the Japanese market with small people, with small hands that seem to be interested in gadgets more so than Europeans or Americans. But that might be a prejudice from my side.
jake
8 months ago |>Only thing I can think of is there focus on the Japanese market with small people, with small hands that seem to be interested in gadgets more so than Europeans or Americans. But that might be a prejudice from my side.
yeah and they focus more on Asian market ,especially on Chinese and SE Asia , after all that part of the market is the most rapidly growing and where the money is now.
the US, Japan and EU markets are all almost dead and much smaller than SE Asia or Chinese market..
the NEX system and Samsung NX system were aimed on Asian market that is obvious to me at my very first glance at these products.
Frederic Hew
8 months ago |As if the NEX 7′s selling point is the placement of the viewfinder…
jules
8 months ago |+1000
This pseudo rangefinder thing is getting blown way out of proportion and its utter ridiculousness how just one (lack of) feature have some forum dwellers ready to immolate on public sphere.
As much as a L1 reincarnation would be cool, m43 can live without it.
I’d complain if their best could not shoot anything printable beyond ISO 1600 and had strong AA filters and aggressive in body noise redux.
I’d complain if they only had kit lenses (not to confuse with whenever they announce a kit lens)
I’d complain if we had just one form factor to choose from.
jeez..
Frederic Hew
8 months ago |heh, blown way out of proportion would be an understatement
Some people attribute more importance to the aesthetics of their cameras than to the aesthetics for the images they take with it.
st3v4nt
8 months ago |Yeah so focus in fact they always charge Us more for m4/3 camera compare to US and Europe market….
Kylberg
8 months ago |The G3 is a very good compromise. I gave the “fake-rangefinder” style E-P1 and GF1 two years before I concluded they are not acceptable to work with. They are for just snapshots.
So no surprise that Oly immitates Pana here.
Speaking about styling: Are you a camera user that wants other to see you have a flashy camera – or do you want a tool for making PHOTOS that you and others like to look at?
Mr. Reeee
8 months ago |+100
Really. Style or substance? Will a camera match your outfit or not?
The GF and PEN series are Point & Shoot bodies. A true rangefinder has an integrated viewfinder, hence the name!
People have had several years shooting with the current crop of P&S bodies, along with the kludgy tack-on EVFs and the conclusion seems to be the extremely loud cry for a built-in EVF with a rangefinder form factor.
Eric
8 months ago |But why not marry both form and function? Nothing is preventing that. Why settle? I ordered a G3 last month before I left on a vacation, but it didn’t arrive in time, so I canceld the order. While in NYC I swung by B&H and I tested the G3 out; I am now very glad I canceld that order. That camera inspires no passion in me what so ever. It feels cheap and the control dial felt so poorly made I didn’t even want to touch it. Yes, cameras are ultimately tools, but for those of us that inspire to be fine art photographers there’s more to them than just a grip + lens + shutter.
Before trying the G3 myself I thought Steve Huff was crazy for saying that camera just didn’t do much for him, but after trying it out myself now I get what he was going on about. I really hope Panasonic surprises me with the GX1. I simply don’t understand why it has taken them 3 years to make a m4/3′s “LC1″.
MJr
8 months ago |Agreed.
Pete
8 months ago |Of course you are not the only one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am number 2! ore better 20.000!!!
And i think we will see a 2,8/10 because it is a very very usefull lens. not for the glass cabinet but to take great pictures! I hope it!
It can be cheap like the 1,8/45 and small, perfekt for travelling.
I had this (2,8/20) for over ten years on my Nikon F-801 and F-80 and F-3 an I loved it.
Henrik
8 months ago |QUOTE:
Don’t think we will ever see a 10mm f/2.8 lens.
ANSWER:
Too bad. But i agree: the m43 guys manage admirably to avoid producing desirable glass.
Nick
8 months ago |7-14/f4, 12/f2, 20/f1.7, 25/f1.4, 25/f0.95, 45/f1.8, 45/f2.8 Macro
I don’t know of any other system that has come up with more desirable lenses in the last couple of years :/
Sören
8 months ago |Well, it makes sense for Olympus to
make an E620 for µFT, because there are no FT entry level DSLRs anymore. Nevertheless, I would also prefer a fresh design with corner EVF.
lnqe-M
8 months ago |Remember, E-300 and E-330, so also have viewfinder in corner.
Esa Tuunanen
8 months ago |Mechanic-optical constraint of very complex light path just made viewfinder very small and no doubt caused more expenses than normal SLR viewfinder.
Esa Tuunanen
8 months ago |Not only E-620 but also full high end controls and ergonomy E-30 needs mirrorless successor and the sooner the better if Olympus doesn’t want m4/3 to compete against fully established product ranges of competitors (actually it already happened if m4/3 is claimed to compete with DSLRs) like happened for 4/3 when it finally started to resemble full system.
E-420/450 market position can be handled by various PENs, which there are already enough interations to fill museum.
Soe
8 months ago |Keep in mind, filing a patent doesn’t mean that the patented idea would go into production. Many Ideas are patented to get a competitive edge over rivals for law suits, settlements, etc.
Bob Bowné
8 months ago |This makes sense when you consider the company has apparently stopped pursuing anything in the direction of their line of 4/3′s cameras. Offering a “complete” camera in MFT (which is the only system Olympus is actively forwarding), with more classing styling is not a surprise.
What I don’t understand is this. The Leica M9 has been around for years and in many people’s eyes is a photographic benchmark (but out of the ordinary person’s photo budget). Then as soon as the GF1 arrived on the scene…many seasoned photographers (myself included), saw the the possibilities of a compact camera like this with a range-finder “like” electronic viewfinder. We have been talking and speculating about it on blogs ever since…Since that speculation started…the Fuji X100 arrived with lots of fanfare and sales (not for me…fixed lens and too many quirks), now the NEX7..which has been in the pipe for a long time arrives (lacking in too many ways for this photographer..mainly the lens situation)…
Why do Panasonic and Olympus refuse to produce the camera we all want and have been talking about for years?
The lenses are there.
The technology is there.
I truly believe the market is there.
Even if they just made a flagship pro-model with built-in veiwfinder, weather sealing etc. and charged a lot of money for it…the presence of a camera of that magnitude would help sell their whole line on cameras…especially if someone could buy in with a lower model, but eventually trade up and that all of their lenses could still be used.
I just do not understand it. That camera…that we have been talking about for years would be a benchmark. Yet…Panasonic and Olympus will not make it?????
ArKersaint
8 months ago |+ 100 That is exactly what I have been expressing for 2 years !
Bob Bowné
8 months ago |Ultimate frustration, LOL!!!. I also am not buying any camera with the G3 sensor in it either..even if it does have a viewfinder….That sensor isn’t great tech.. Panasonic added more megapixels but in my opinion the overall image quality suffered for images taken with normal ISO values.
I would rather use my 12 MP GF1 sensor.
Don Carrot
8 months ago |(still) not interested, thanks and bye
Ihateidiots
8 months ago |I am beginning to wonder how many dimwits have actually held a rangefinder yet want a rangefinder form factor. The popularity of the SLR form factor was partly due to the fact that it was ‘eye neutral’. Rangefinders favor those who are right eye biased, not left eye biased.
NiKo
8 months ago |I personally just don’t like my nose being glued to some LCD screen, that’s it, mainly, plus the cool form factor let me admit. But I agree it’s “right-side handling” biased, though like many other product families are, like guitars, snowboards etc..
Mr. Reeee
8 months ago |+10
Yes and having the lens and viewfinder align vertically creates a more direct line of sight, like firing a rifle. Since cameras are almost completely electronic, an EVF could be placed almost anywhere.
Esa Tuunanen
8 months ago |I’ve never wanted rangefinder pocket cam. I want mirrorless camera with high end DSLR level controls and ergonomy (because of that m4/3 has been only baby of system compared to competition) with EVF in more ergonomic rangefinder like position.
In DSLRs optical viewfinder basically had to be above lens mount but EVF can be positioned more freely. (limits are those of electrical wiring)
>‘eye neutral’
Meaning it sucks equally for both!
Physical devices can never be equally comfortable for different “sided” (eye or hand) people but have you happened to notice that those devices are commonly made so that they’re comfortable for at least majority of the users.
Bob Bowné
8 months ago |MILLIONS of rangefinder camera have been sold. I am right-eyed. I want one.
Ihateidiotstoo
8 months ago |Come on, that’s stretching it a bit. “Eye neutral”? While it does not advantage those who use their right eye, you mean photographers who use their left eye to look through the VF preferred the SLR out of spite for their right-eyed counterparts?
We all know why the SLR was popular. Part of it was that the VF was centred and you were looking down the barrel of the lens. “Eye neutrality” (which is a wholly different matter) had little to do with it. Perhaps partially, but it would have been a very small part.
Patrick
8 months ago |Odd shape for a mictro four third. The camera body thickness looks more like a four third! Is this the forthcoming E50?
Robert
8 months ago |Thats just a drawing of an old oly superzoom
http://www.dpreview.com/products/olympus/compacts/oly_sp550uz
bilgy_no1
8 months ago |Yes, very clearly it’s a fixed lens compact of some sorts. Otherwise, where is the lens release button???
bbking
8 months ago |@Bob Bowne I’m with you but I think they want to take the transition from 4/3 to m4/3 progressively. Having only the E-5, which is a brilliant body BTW especially for it’s price, isn’t good enough in my eyes. Make a pro series m4/3.
I’m all for accessories and an EVF I have no problems with. What I do have a problem with is though, is that it’s either a flash or EVF.
That pic is just an SP model. Where does it indicate (in the images, of course
) “m4/3″ in the patent?
Bob Bowné
8 months ago |I agree bb (like your initials!
). Olympus has the tech to make a KICKIN MFT body…E5 quality…I would still like them to think Leica not E-5 if they do it. If Oly would just start making everything like the 12mm f/2.0… MFT would be in a new era. That lens is everything MFT should be! I am never looking for MFT to replace my DSLR, though and all of its lenses, etc. I am just looking for a high-quality complement to my big system that is very compact where I can just grab one LITTLE bag full of lenses and go and shoot some really fine images without getting all wrapped up in my DSLR head. I like doing that too…but MFT is so freeing of that. When I really want or need high rez and sophisticated glass, high frame rate etc…I go DSLR. It’s hard to beat. MFT can be its cool little brother…sometimes trumping his master!!!! LOL!
FormerTechRep
8 months ago |Did anyone actually look at the picture? Notice the zoom control surrounding the shutter release? Notice the lack of a lens release button? Notice the telescoping lens design? That’s an SP-series camera.
emde
8 months ago |Why should a 2,8/10 not make sense anymore? 12 to 10 mm is quite a difference. Simply try, e.g. on the 9-18 or the 7-14
Peter
8 months ago |Since the image in the patent shows both a lens and camera, perhaps this is a fixed-lens model…. like a superzoom????
Peter F
lnqe-M
8 months ago |Hmmm, new E-10 and E-20 in Pen style
Bob Bowné
8 months ago |EXACTLY! Too bad they wasted their money on face cream and tupperware. You will never see it!
digifan
8 months ago |+1
Well I thought it was somekind of SP-550 UZ, too.
And I think the design is VERY UGLY
GreyOwl
8 months ago |Could it be something completely strange and odd: a fixed lens super zoom with a 4/3rds size sensor?
Mark
8 months ago |I would love to see a m4/3 reincarnation of a E-620 type camera only a little bit smaller.
With weathersealing please.
I think it will happen next year.
E-PM2 successor of the E-PM1, a great success for Olympus.
E-P4 successor of the E-P3, rangefinder with build-in EVF.
E-PL4 successor of the E-PL3 only like a dSLR. The L stands for large now.
The Master
8 months ago |If you want a rangefinder like body, just exercise a little self control and quit buying Panasonic products, until they make one. Put a little note on your bathroom mirror, to remind yourself every morning (I WILL NOT BUY PANASONIC PRODUCTS UNTILL THEY MAKE WHAT I WANT!).
ArKersaint
8 months ago |Probably the most sensible comment !
mahler
8 months ago |The same is valid for Olympus. With their PEN only product line, they are even more in the mood making products that many don’t want. Panasonic is much more diverse in its m4/3 strategy than Olympus, which is – despite of their mythical PEN concept – is still not able to design a camera with build-in EVF.
Narretz
8 months ago |Guys, it’s a auperzoom. Or Olympus have a collapsible m43 lens in their lineup, too.
Robert
8 months ago |http://www.dpreview.com/products/olympus/compacts/oly_sp550uz
napalm
8 months ago |spot on!
|O|
8 months ago |I saw a non-Japanese Asian person carrying such a camera in Tokyo, as part of a group of 3-4 people, a little over a month ago!
It bore resemblance to Oly’s SP range than either a G3 or any existing Olympus MFT. I noticed 1) a pronounced ring on the body a la NEX which made the lens look removeable and not an SP, 2) collapsible lens with two dark-gray “rings” instead of just one focus ring 3) a viewfinder in the corner.
Compared with the drawing, the body had less smooth curves, and the viewfinder was closer to the edge of the body.
I went to the Olympus website, didn’t spot an SP model with a viewfinder, but never really bother to post. Should have approached the guy…
bbking
8 months ago |I’m almost certain it’s the SP-565 model:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/olympus-sp-565-uz-468×345.jpg
Victor
8 months ago |Yes, certainly. Anyway, not EVIL, no mount button, no hot shoe.
Boooo!
8 months ago |“I really don’t know if people needs DSLR-styled mirrorless cameras.”
Yes, admin, they do. In fact, they need mirrorless cameras the size and the bulk of an E-5, in order to use good existing glass on it, because even something mid-range like the 50-200 won’t EVER materialize for m4/3 without a massively larger camera body.
This is a step in the right direction, if true, but still half the size, bulk and weight of what it should be.
loadinglevelone
8 months ago |I’m still looking for a compact m43 camera, with built in viewfinder. Seems I’ll have to wait (a lot?) longer before I invest in my next compact.
Rob-L
8 months ago |Is it just me or does the lens in the drawing look like it doesn’t detatch from the camera? It kind of looks like a bridge camera to me, not an ILC.
vromopodarix
8 months ago |Why do you think with all it’s problems the x100 sells so well, or the NEX 7 with it’s ‘inferior’ sensor is so pre ordered?
It has nothing to do with price (they are both expensive), retro styling (one is retro, one is hi tech), or lens selection (one has one and the other 6), or even size (they are both bigger than NEX5-EPM1-GF3).
It IS the bloody rangefinder form factor with the viewfinder. It is what consumers want.
When PanaOly come to their senses Sony will wave a good prime selection and probably Fuji the same for it’s rumored X200. And then the boat will have sailed, nobody in their right mind will get m4/3 and another nice system by PanaOly will die just like 4/3 even though it had the best quality lenses available.
Let’s face it, we MAINLY prefer m4/3 to other mirrorless because of the Panasonic 20 and the Olympus 12 and 45
All the other reasons (size, price, sensor etc) are secondary. Let me analyze:
1. Sensor: We have a pretty bad sensor(s) but it is apparently not that important or else everyone would be shooting Sony.
2. Size: We have the GF3-EPM1 on one hand and the GH2 monstrosity on the other. But the competition has the Nex5 so we still don’t have the smallest.
3. Lens selection: Hmmm that must be it. We have the best selection of glass (not counting the Samasung with it’s pathetic sensors) and we have that selection because of the 2 year head start of the system. Remember at the time of the G1 the only other option was Sigma DP1.
But the competition is not standing still, Sony now has a cool Zeiss 35 and a nice portrait 75 equivalent. I suspect that in the next 18 months they will have more lenses out.
And don’t let me hear that funny thing about the HUGE E-mount lenseson small NEX5 bodies, we have the huge GH2 cam with tiny lenses which is just as silly.
I fear our beloved format is slowly dying before it even matures. I will keep my EP1 as it serves me quite well but I will not be spending any more money on this system which does not listen to it’s customers.
mahler
8 months ago |People, who claim in their “analysis”, that cameras like the GH2 are “monstrous” or “huge” loose credibility completely.
For what it has and does, the GH2 is the smallest camera available. It has a very large view finder in a very small body. It should not be one millimeter smaller.
Such “analysts” should acknowledge that not everybody wants and needs a pocketable system camera. Portable yes, pocketable no. The pseudo rangefinder body style is not the panacea of m4/3, it is just one way to implement that standard.
You are free to keep Olympus’ failed entry to the m4/3 market, the EP-1, until it gets dust, but don’t deny the legitimity of alternative concept.
It is the death of m4/3, if we are only/too much concerned about size and weight, instead of ergonomics, usability, and performance.
Mr. Reeee
8 months ago |+1
That’s Point & Shoot style, NOT pseudo-rangefinder. A rangefinder has a built-in, integrated viewfinder.
It’s important for the health and viability of the M4/3 system that there be numerous body styles and CHOICE for users. Different users have different shooting styles and needs, so, in addition to the current P&S and DSLR body styles, there really SHOULD be a true low-profile rangefinder style body with a built-in EVF. I would be comfortable using any of them, but would NOT want to be forced to choose only ONE.
@vromopodarix A GH2, huge? That’s laughable. Have you ever seen, handled or used one?
We don’t NEED to whine about getting a DSLR style M4/3 body, because we already have several, including the flagship GH2.
mahler
8 months ago |If I call PENs “pseudo-rangefinder”, it is only the response that people started calling cameras like the GH2 as “faux DSLR”.
Neither is a PEN a rangefinder, nor is a GH2 a DSLR. Both have a similar form factor to their analog predecessors.
Currently, there are much more “RF-style” m4/3 bodies out than DSLR-styled ones. So if Olympus or Panasonic releases yet another RF with out EVF, that is something about to whine.
To me it is sad that Olympus still sticks only to its PEN concept. It is time that they come up with an alteranative to the GH2 so that people, who prefer this body style, have some choice.
Klarno
8 months ago |I think it should be noted that the original Olympus Pen F system from the 1960s is in fact an SLR system, not a rangefinder.
mahler
8 months ago |True. As I said, both camera concepts are nothing new, they inherit from analog predecessors (PEN-F and SLR). I have also no clue, why the PENs were associated with rangefinders, but it happened once somewhere and then spread around. Even a PEN with build in VF remains a “pseudo-rangefinder”, but this is probably hair splitting.
bilgy_no1
8 months ago |1. Great if a RF-styled camera is released in m43 sometime soon. Given yesterday’s replies to the post about the GX-1, there are at least 300 people who will buy one. I sincerely hope it comes soon.
2. Personally, I hope there will also be a m43 model as a true bridge between 43 lenses and m43 bodies. G3 works fine as a replacement for the E-620, except for the AF. If Olympus release a camera such as hinted at above, together with a PDAF-adapter, I’ll be on it. Finally able to use my 43 lenses with normal AF. Olympus please note: start using teh 16MP sensor, or something else that offers a step up from current models.
3. I don’t believe the drawing above really is an ILC. No lens release button. Still, I hope for the above.
In the meantime, I’ll sit on my cash a little longer…
vromopodarix
8 months ago |First of all a post on a forum by a random person by default does not have credibility as you put it, it is an opinion, in this case mine so allow me that.
Second in my analysis I try to identify what most of m4/3 customers want and that is NOT the GH2. It may very well be an excellent camera.
M4/3 does not try to fill a niche like Leica but is trying to become a mainstream product line like the EOS 550D for instance. In that premise it PanaOly must listen to the MAJORITY of their customers who cry for a rangefinder type and not a faux DSLR.
Finally thank you for allowing me to keep my failed EP1 as you put it but try to think why it was the most popular camera when it was introduced (I mean popular not by amount of sales but by amount of excitement )
Esa Tuunanen
8 months ago |> mainstream product line like the EOS 550D for instance.
Average consumers buy it because it’s allmighty Canon whose cameras are hyped everywhere. Jane/Joe Average Vegatable masses rarely know the slightest thing about what they buy but base their decision only to amount of marketing hype and imitating magpie in being attracted to shiny and colourfull things.
And while 550D might sell numerically lot it’s only one body in Canon’s big EOS-system whose higher end products in use of professionals, enthusiasts and such have given it the name and reputation to sell to average consumers. That’s what rised Canon to dominating position in digital photography along with Nikon. Without all those other products it would be just one product of one market niche and lacking the system part whose concept includes offering various level products.
Without similar expanding m4/3 will stay in niche fragile to attacks of Canon, Nikon and Sony whose product range covering whole market gives them very big leverage to build their attacks on and make those probable to succeed in hacking of m4/3′s market share in years to come. Remember that m4/3′s big share of mirrorless cameras is only because of it being the first one and with very little competition.
Heck, with more sense by Nikon (too small sensor to avoid competing their own DSLRs) and Sony (too little lenses) m4/3 would be already under threat of becoming just one part of mirrorless cameras.
Leica can get away with one market niche because their buyers don’t buy just product but as much name and religion which prevents normal rules of market competition chewing them to death.
Despite of using GH2 at the moment it’s barely at the minimum size limit where only following strict pure utilitarian design (instead of fashion market) could make it’s ergonomy and controls good but at current level it’s just one entry level marketroid toy with ergonomy loosing even to absolutely lowest end 4/3 bodies of 400-range.
That lack of different market segment bodies has been very effective at preventing me from suggesting m4/3 as alternative to DSLRs of even tiny maker Pentax.
So if you want m4/3 to succeed against big competition you’ll better open up your consumer mind for the full concept of camera system and urge Olympus and Panasonic do the same.
Because in other case I’ll have enough time in my life time to help dozens or possible hundred+ people to avoid this Paralympus system.
MrL
8 months ago |looks like a bridge
GreyOwl
8 months ago |Yes, a hump-backed bridge!
mahler
8 months ago |To me that is the best product proposal Olympus has made in a long time. Finally something different than another incremental incarnation of the PEN concept!
flash
8 months ago |“Looking at the preorder success of the Sony NEX-7″ anyone get one? If no then it is not a success.
While it looks very intriguing, I like would like to try it, or another camera in the form factor before I think an off set viewfinder is the way to go on such a small camera as a mFT.
Not having it for sell for several more months is a good reason for Panasonic or Olympus not to respond with an announcement of a similar form factor camera. As it seems mFT camera life is a about a year, announcements with more then a 2 or 3 month delay for product are not such a good idea. I know Canon announced a Camera with at least a 5 month delay, but the life span of its flagship camera should be more then 2 years.
Pixnat
8 months ago |No hot shoe?
Mmmmmhh…
It looks like a Bridge Camera and NOT a m4/3 camera, sorry…
Ita user
8 months ago |You’re right…
mahler
8 months ago |“I really don’t know if people needs DSLR-styled mirrorless cameras.”
Admin, you should be very careful with such statements, because you may piss off a very large group of your readers.
This stupid statement is proven to be nonsense simply by the sheer amount of people buying such cameras, such as the G3 or GH2.
To me the DSLR form factor is far superior to a rangefinder form, but I want this in a smaller format, including lenses. Thus, cameras like a GH2 or G3 perfectly suites my and others’ needs. The DSLR form factor together with the excellent view finder brought me into m4/3, when I bought the G1 in early 2009 and kept me in with the GH2.
No one should infer that there is one single form factor that is the panacea for m4/3. Diversity is the key.
It is the duty of the admin to refrain from such statements mentioned above in his news articles. He is free to comment in the comment section. At least I would regard this as good practice.
Fish
8 months ago |Speaking of stupid statements.
In case it has eluded you, this is the admin’s site. He can post whatever he likes and comment wherever he wishes. Not everyone will agree with everything (or even anything) they read. As far as I’m concerned you, and any other reader that may be ‘pissed off’ by the owner of this site voicing an opinion that is different from yours, can take a hike.
If the admin’s opinions bother you so much, go find another rumor site that you agree with… or go start your own. As skeptical as I am that you could actually produce something rather than just criticize – I would consider that a better use of your time than to lecture the admin about what his ‘duty’ is or where he is ‘free to comment’.
mahler
8 months ago |To put an opinion questioning a camera concept, which is quite popular amongst m4/3 clients, as necessary, is way off, what a 43rumors site owner is supposed to do in a news post. He can freely post his opinion in comments, as I said.
He can continue to slam GHx and Gx bodies and tell everybody that these camera concepts aren’t good designs for m4/3 bodies, but I hardly can call this good practice. There is no one single right or wrong concept for a m4/3 body.
If the admin thinks, that his statement is legitimate in the news post, I urge him to call his site “43rangefinderrumors.com”.
m4/3 is about diversity. If admin does not realize this, he would be the wrong person to operate such a site (and I would recommend Panasonic to refrain from supporting this site and supply him with information).
EDIT: It looks, that admin has withdrawn his original statement. I totally agree with him that a rangefinder with build-in EVF is a gap in the m4/3 product line up, which should be closed as quick as possible.
Fish
8 months ago |First of all, it is not a “news post”, it is a rumor post and the admin is free to post his opinions wherever he wants; he doesn’t need your permission to “freely post his opinion in comments” (how is that freedom if you are dictating what and where he can say it?)
Let’s not get melodramatic about his “slamming” ghx and gx bodies, that’s not what he did at all.
“If the admin thinks, that his statement is legitimate in the news post, I urge him to call his site “43rangefinderrumors.com”.”
Again, this isn’t a news post – and of course his opinion is legitimate!!! You would do well to remember that everyone’s opinion is legitimate… even those that are different from your own. Out of curiosity, if the admin had posted his opinion that people didn’t need another kit zoom, would you be calling on him to rename his site ’43primerumors.com’???
“If admin does not realize this, he would be the wrong person to operate such a site”
You make it sound like the admin was elected and could/should be removed from office. Of course he is the right person to operate this site… it is HIS site! He is the one putting in the countless hours and developing the contacts. You don’t have to replace him, if you don’t like the content, start your own site.
“(and I would recommend Panasonic to refrain from supporting this site and supply him with information).”
What??? Why the freak would you recommend Panasonic stop supplying information? How in the world would that be a benefit to ANYONE? I can’t even see how that would benefit you and your personal crusade? So you don’t want the admin to post anything that is critical of Panasonic or Olympus?
If you are bent out of shape by him questioning the need of a patent, what will you do if he comments on a real life product?! If he thinks a lens has poor image quality or terrible CA, is he not allowed to write that? How could this site have any credibility under those circumstances? May as well scrap all rumor sites and just rely on the marketing departments’ official press releases, because that’s the only “news” you would get.
Out of curiosity, why are you so bent on silencing any opinion that is contrary to what you think? Do you actually think that if the admin writes that we don’t need a dslr-styled body, that panasonic and olympus won’t actually build one?? If that’s what you are worried about, you can stop worrying. Admin’s opinions are not driving m4/3 development.
Or do you live a part of the world where it is considered normal or “good practice” to strike down opinions that are different from your own. Because I can guarantee that if he had instead commented that m4/3 didn’t need another brick-shaped camera body, you would not have graced him with your pompous thought-police lecture about what his duty is or whether or not he is fit to run his own site.
mahler
8 months ago |It is a different thing if you voice your opinion saying “I don’t like a particular design” than saying that there is no need for a particular design, which many readers here enjoy buying and using. Is that so hard to get?
Of course, admin can say whatever he wants, but we talk about good or bad practice for a site owner. Admin can criticize Olympus and Panasonic as he wants, but claiming that certain successfull designs are superfluous in m4/3 is beyond, what I would call seriously.
If this site owner slams the product design, for which Panasonic stands for (you know the design with the “hump”), as that there is no need for, I would stop supporting this site, if I were Panasonic.
From every non-brand related “neutral” web sites of m4/3 products, I haven’t come across one single site admin, who bluntly states that DSLR body shapes aren’t needed in the m4/3 world.
You should recognize that sites, such as this one, have quite a bit of influence. It is not beneficial for m4/3, if such a site makes such statements (especially continuously, which he hasn’t done yet).
Despite of that, admin was quite enthusiastic when the GH2 was announced, so this statement looks quite contradictory.
Admin has withdrawn his statement anyway, so I guess he recognized that is was a big mistake.
Fish
8 months ago |If admin has withdrawn his statement because of what you have written, then my guess is that you are one of his sources and you were making a veiled threat that he would not get information unless he began being more favorable to panasonic. That might be possible considering the following points:
1) you claim to be aware and current on the attitudes of every site admin that features m4/3.
2) you seem to have measured and remembered the admin’s level of enthusiasm regarding the gh2 announcement and how consistent it has been with his other Panasonic messages.
3) you’ve shown an otherwise incomprehensible insistence on controlling this site’s content.
4) the fact that the admin hasn’t put you in your place like one would normally expect in this situation.
At any rate, it doesn’t matter. Whether you’re a Panasonic marketing troll or just an Internet bully, you are the one who was out of line, or made “a big mistake”… not the administrator.
mahler
8 months ago |It is pretty strange, that admin does not chime in to defend his statement, isn’t it?
Unfortunately, you don’t get what our discussion is all about: good practice.
spam
8 months ago |He just changed the post, removing the statement and making a lot of the comments in the thread “meaningless” in stead of simply leaving the original text and adding a disclaimer (if he changed his mind).
IMO this is not the way to do it. If you write something stupid, then don’t edit “history”. Let it stand and explain why, or why it was wrong.
mahler
8 months ago |I totally agree.
The problem I had with his remark
“I really don’t know if people needs DSLR-styled mirrorless cameras.”
that he does not explain this. We know his preference for Olympus and pseudo rangefinders (therefore I question the sites name 43rumors being appropriate), but his statement means something different.
I simply don’t like if one concept is rejected without reason, despite of its popularity. I would never say that Olympus PENs or pseudo rangefinders aren’t needed. That is something different, if somebody say that Olympus should make more than just PENs (this does not reject the PENs).
I also wonder why admin is mute in this case – in general he isn’t.
spam
8 months ago |To his credit he hasn’t edited the thread and deleted “offending” posts. Btw, agree that he usally answers comments, don’t know why he handles this one differently.
Klarno
8 months ago |That camera is the Olympus SP-565UZ.
Andy C
8 months ago |Guys, that’s obviously an Olympus 565UZ, NOT a new m4/3 camera.
http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/assets/24165.jpg
spam
8 months ago |Several people have commented on how much it resembles a superzoomodel and not a mFT, and I have to agree. This looks remarkably like a SP-565UZ which was one of the last advances superzooms from Olympus. Maybe they are planning a new one.
http://objects.olympus-europa.com/consumer/3dviews/sp-565UZ/
Edit: A couple of minutes too late…
jules
8 months ago |First, its a patent, not an announcement. But lets propose that it is coming up : we know it already, no announcements are to everyone’s taste, but why would it not be cool? There is a market for the G/GH form factor and there is little reasons why Olympus would leave that dance floor entirely to Panasonic. I just have to think about all those that would die for IBIS, Olympus’s jpeg colors and gestalt, all that in G/GH form factor.
But its not a rangefinder..
Complaining that its not a rangefinder with EVF is like complaining on the announcement of a kit zoom, saying its not the fast prime that I need.
I dunno, Nikon released a budget wide macro. Why not a deluxe tele macro that *I* wanted so bad?!? Bye Bye Nikon…
Miroslav
8 months ago |I’d like that DSLR lookalike camera to materialize. It’s about time for Olympus to make m4/3 body with built-in viewfinder. Whether that comes in the shape of Panasonic G3 or Sony NEX-7 is not that important to me, although I’d more like that rangefinder shape.
Whatever comes out from Oly with EVF, movable LCD and IBIS will be my next m4/3 camera. I don’t see enough reasons to upgrade from my E-PL1 to anything they offer at the moment.
Emol
8 months ago |Must say I like this. I have a g2 and like it a lot, but would sure like in body stabilization for my 20mm and also for the oly 45mm.. Of course also I want better sensor, all-weather body, radio flash trigger system, interchangable sensor system +++
But I really did not get what this patent was really about. Is there ab invention in this patent?