Huge surprise from Sony: Makes an OMD alike FF camera!


NEX vs OMD design (ePhotozine).

Everyone here knows that Sony and Olympus are now close partners. And it looks like Sony is “borrowing” Olympus OMD design for their soon to be announced Full Frame E-mount cameras! These cameras will be announced in mid October and have the EVF in the middle. Sources said it’s very “OMD-alike”. There is no image of these cameras yet (there are two of them).

I was wondering what else the Sony-Olympus partnership will bring us in 2014….

  • I don’t think it is a big surprise that Sony is going fullframe with mirrorless. That has been expected a long time. That they are going for more SLR type designs is perhaps news, though.

    • DJPB

      Be sure this is the arrival of a new era. One in which Sony, Olympus and Fujifilm will be the new market leaders in the only camera market segment where growth is still possible. Sony is moving the high end DSLR now in a (very) compact design. See what that means: if they take full control of both the technical/optical as commercial aspects of this system, it will be completely over and out for Leica now, and getting very hard for Nikon and Canon as well, too reluctant to release a credible pro-line mirrorless concept.

      • Milt


      • haha

        ahahah for sure! with that tiny tiny sensor? m43??? ahahah prepare to be blown away from sony FF!! Oly and panny are going to sink as nikon and canon

  • G.

    …so?…is this a m43 rumor?….really don’t understand post like this..

    • admin

      A couple of reasons why this is interesting:
      1) Sony-Olympus are very close partners. What Sony does could be of interest for future MFT camera develpments
      2) Sony borrows a MFT camera design
      3) I know it will shock you. But MFT is not the only mirrorless system of thw world. And it may be interetsing for 99% of our readers to know what highlights are coming from the competition.

      If you do not agree and want to remain fundamentalist please visit other M43 sites. There are plenty of them.

      • NikonShooter

        Why so offensive?

        • I dont think its offensive, but just a logical reply on a nonsense reply.

        • Boooe

          it’s admin personal site, he owes us nothing. and yeah, that’s logical answer

          • ColinH

            I’m not against the Admin, nor what he’s said. But he’s making money off the site, so saying ‘he owe’s us nothing’ isn’t entirely correct.

            I should also say I’ve no problem with this, more power to him. I like the site and the stories and if he can make a few bucks whilst providing this, it’s a fair trade.

            • 2tall

              @colinh your logic is flawed

              if you think that admin makes a lot of money of this site you are delusional, he maybe makes a bit of pocket money and has to work a day job

              and regardless of how much money he makes, it is his venture and his effort that goes into it, there is no obligation to you, me or anyone to cuddle and kiss obnoxious people who post their negative drivel.

              you aren’t entitled to anything you haven’t earned yourself, wake up to reality and close that open hand.

              • NikonShooter

                @colinh your logic is flawed

                …and you’re talking out of your ass.


              • ColinH

                >@colinh your logic is flawed
                I don’t think it is.

                >if you think that admin makes a lot of money of this site you are delusional,
                I didn’t say he makes loads of money, I don’t believe he does, but he does make money and I’ll say it again. Good for him!

                >he maybe makes a bit of pocket money and has to work a day job
                I’m sure that’s true and I actually hope he makes more than that. It’s a great site.

                >and regardless of how much money he makes, it is his venture and his effort that goes into it,
                I never said otherwise.

                >there is no obligation to you, me or anyone to cuddle and kiss obnoxious people who post their negative drivel.
                Again, I said I didn’t have an issue with what he said (or the fact that the post was about a Sony FF, it was/is a great post)

                >you aren’t entitled to anything you haven’t earned yourself, wake up to reality and close that open hand.
                I didn’t say we were entitled to anything free, did you actually read what I posted?

                The point was around it being his personal site (or what you more correctly term ‘his venture’), he’s making money, how much I don’t know and I actually don’t care. But it’s probably less than he deserves, but more than if none of us came here.

        • sabrina

          that is called plain speaking, you may be familiar with it if you existed before the ‘customer is always right period’. If you cant handle plain truths go pay someone to be fake and lie to you with a smile.

          • NikonShooter

            I guess people like you live in places where being nice when you say something is unusual.

        • Ronan

          No one is being offensive except maybe G.

          • NikonShooter

            He might be a fool, but in a shouting match with a fool nobody wins.

        • michael

          I think you mean “defensive.” But he wasn’t being defensive; he was answering the question posed.

      • G.

        dear admin, very weak points and the most weakest is this “….2) Sony borrows a MFT camera design…”…all the manufacture use the eve/ovf in the center is not a oly alone design…you already post in the mirrorlessrumors site and i think that site is much more appropriete for this kind of news….have a good day and smile..:)

        • admin

          bye :)

          • G.

            ciao :)

          • Admin! Don’t feed the trolls!

          • wtf

            Wow. Way to get people to enjoy the site… arguing. Really a great way to incite interest. Why do any of this if you’re only going to accept praise and entertain the positive?

            • sabrina

              I think he maybe is sick of the twits that post negative tripe constantly, i.e. the above comments…good thing if those people go as they pollute this site and make it worse for the silent majority who don’t want to hear their whining. bon voyage whingers!!!

              • Mauro

                GO admin, we are with you. You are doing a great service to this little community. Please do continue undeterred! For all the others: let’s not nitpick on reactions and moods please.

                • NikonShooter

                  I’m not with him!

                  In fact it’s *very* unprofessional and childish behaviour.

                  • Anonymous

                    Hmm, I rather think its not offensive or rude for admin to clearly explain why he posted something, rather, considering that he has absolutely zero obligation to do so, I think it is actually rather nice for him to explain why he does what he does.

                    Silly questions however that are in fact just criticism in disguise are not very nice, rather the opposite really.

                    Calling someone offensive because he takes the effort to explain something while not having any obligation to do so I’d call ‘not very nice either’.

                    I come from a place where people actually appreciate others putting effort into things they use, this is obviously a bit too much to ask from people like G, and sadly enough it seems also people like you.

                  • michael

                    You should show how upset you are by going away and never coming back, rather than commenting over and over again.

            • admin

              Not arguing. Argumenting. Listed three points why he isn’t corrtc (in my opinion). Despite that what’s pisses me off a bit is that every time I post a news from another ocpany (and that happens 4-5 times per year) a couple of people gets annoyed. I write 1200 articles per year and when I post these 4-5 articles some gets upset. I really don’t understand that.

              • Nature

                There are 1200 readers on this site, and only 4-5 are negative. Why are annoyed by the minority, while the majority like your postings. It is so simple. Simply ignore those type of postings, because they don’t represent the opinion of most of the readers. You can not satisfy everyone.

              • NikonShooter

                If you simply cannot stand above that then I suggest shutting down the site and getting another hobby like a small garden or something like that.

                • Anonymous

                  So sir, where is your community site, so we can evaluate how you run it?

                  Don’t have any? Easy to tell others how to do things you don’t have to do yourself isn’t it?

            • admin

              In generla some people has zero tollerance. They annoye me eveyr time they don’t liek soemthing. I accept critics, but a bit of common sense should be obvious.

              • narutogrey

                I would just delete their posts.

        • Ronan

          When ever i get a bit of hope for the internet… i see a moron posting like that.


      • alexander

        good post – it makes sense to inform the comunity !!!

      • Raist

        Admin, what I don’t understand is why you say that Sony is borrowing a MFT design. That looks to me more Nex than anything else. Where is the borrowing? AFAIk 5-axis if anything.

    • kiki

      Olympus said they maybe go FF also instead m43. That’s why i think this new is in rumors m43.

      • sarah

        that is mft and ff, pro level ff mirrorless in addition to consumer + pro mft

  • Ryan

    FF NEX body is not a concern. The point is how many lens for NEX FF will be avaiable, how large, and how heavy they will be.

    • Norseman

      That is neither much of a problem for those looking at m43 for the most obvious reason: FF lenses will be even bigger and heavier than APSC lenses, which are already impractical compared to m43, and so, for without any advantage if you don’t do massive cropping.

      Of couse, loads of people will still buy the bigger sensors, just to brag with the sheer size of their stuff…

      After having suffered from shoulder tendinitis, and even then it’s cured now, I for one won’t even look at anything bigger than m43.

      • Ryan

        Yes. That’s why I raised this point.

        With current APS-C E-mount lens, the size is quite big. I just cannot imagine how big it will be for FF E-mount.

        • Boooe

          Zeiss 35/2.8 is very small. And you can always mount APS-C lens to it if you need to.
          NEXes don’t need to be as compact as point-and-shoots. They need to be smaller than DSLRs.

          • Irresistable

            The key point it the balance between body and lens. The balance between native APS-C E-mount lens and boy is a problem for Sony. It is the issue for NEX system for many years. Unlike NEX, M4/3 proves that the balance between body and lens is very exceptional.

            • Boooe

              It affects only your aesthetic feelings.
              By your logic Sony’s 16-70/4 which weights 300 grams is large and Oly’s 12-40/2.8 which weights 400 grams is acceptable??

              • BLI

                Normal lenses are usually small, no matter the system. If you compare comparable lenses of slightly longer reach, there will be a difference. Comparing a /4 lens to a /2.8 lens is absurd. Why not compare the 24-70/4 to the Pana 12-42 pancake zoom? Or the 380 g Oly 12-40/2.8 to the 980 g Sony 24-70/2.8 — which happens to be twice as expensive as the Oly lens?

                • Tom

                  Not absurd at all. f4 on APSC has about the same DOF as f2.8 on M43. APSC also has roughly a stop advantage in ISO, which makes these two lenses comparable.

      • MarcoSartoriPhoto

        I will use some M mount Leica and Voigtländer lenses, they’re small.

      • rrr_hhh

        You can design smaller FF lenses when you don’t need a huge register to house the mirror. My Zeiss Contax G lenses are not much bigger than MFT lenses. Same for Voigtländer M lenses and Leica M lenses. Also these legacy lenses using heavy metal for the barrels and true glass, so they are heavier, but using nowadays new materials they could be made lighter..

        • Anonymous

          That is correct when looking at wide-angle lenses, but as soon as you start looking at longer focal lengths it no longer works.

    • Boooe

      there are lots of FF manual lenses unlike ASP-C…

      • Stephen

        Not everyone will buy FF body for manual lens.
        I for one will need the strong support or native FF E-mount lens if I have to choose this system.

        • Boooe

          Maybe you won’t buy. But most people won’t buy any FF in the first place, most people use cameraphone only.
          But prices of Canon FD and Minolta MD lenses will go up…

      • Mr. Reeee

        Exactly! Simply adapt rangefinder lenses… like Zeiss and Voigtländer … and you’ll have a small kit with excellent lenses.

        • Anonymous

          if you don’t have a sensor made specifically more very oblique light in the corner, M lenses will be quite bad on this

          • Mr. Reeee

            That remains to be seen.

            M mount lenses have a shorter distance to the sensor than, say Nikon AI-S lenses, so the “problem” may not exist.
            I could see adding a couple to my lens kit… Voigtländer 21mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.5. I already have a Nokton 35mm f1.4 and 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar.

            Who needs Sony lenses anyway? ;-)

    • aqasem

      and don’t forget how much it will cost also :D

  • Anonymous

    what the fuck??? who wants the viewfinder in the middle? please tell me that this is a joke.

    • I always have preferred the VF exactly above the lens, whether or not it’s in the center of the body.

      • Mr. Reeee


      • Ross

        Same here & that’s why I went for the E-M5 (after owning previous DSLRs) & would love the E-M1 with that same design & allignment.

    • YeahYeah

      I do. I find it much better balanced and more practical.

    • Chez Wimpy

      Crazy… the NEX7(6) and Fuji/GX7 get praise because they put the VF in the most logical place. Not having an optical path between the lens and the EVF made this possible. To go OMD-like faux hump for the sake of “tradition” defies logic, putting form over utility.

      • OMega

        How can you say a viewfinder in the corner is most logical location, I’d say centre is most logical as it suits both left and right sighted people, corner is most inconvenient which is why I prefer conventional SLR design, rangefinder design I find difficult to use.

        • Chez Wimpy

          How does the center suit left-eyed people better than the left corner? Nose mash into buttons/grip hand is better than mashing into the screen? Center VF certainly hurts us with European noses shooting with our right eyes, LCD screens continually skin-greased up. And really… left-eyed? If you are visually disabled in your right eye, by all means, but… what about cameras controls for left-handed people? I have no problem shooting with either eye, but I hardly consider myself ambidextrous!

    • Maybe people who shoot with their left eye.

  • commsbloke

    Sounds great a full frame digital camera the size and shape of an OM2.
    If the finder is as large and bright as an OM2 then I’ll upgrade that to sounds perfect.

    • simon

      actually I had an OM2 and I loved the size, but the viewfinder was too big and the eyepoint to short, so I found it really hard to see the whole image comfortably (it wasn’t impossible to see the whole image, but it was hard to see the image as a whole). so I got rid of it, I hope the nex ff isn’t the same.

    • olly…

      Sounds perfect for a deaf…. :)

      Sony! do not listen these fools!!!! :D

  • uiti

    Point is that has “OM” name on it or not

  • Mike

    I smell bullsh!t. Sounds more like Sony is making a model that looks like a DSLR to cater to uninformed people and compete with the Canon 5D/6D market, and to smoothen the transition from their existing FF cameras.

    Of course it will be more interesting to see Sony push out bodies more similar to Leica/Fuji/PEN.

    • simon


    • Ross

      There is a market for the ‘retro’ look & I would think that is what Sony may be going after for this FF camera. If it uses Zuiko (FF) lenses as well, then all the better.

  • Joe

    Sony doesn’t need to borrow from Olympus designs, they own Minolta, they can get plenty of inspiration of the XD and X700

    • Mr. Reeee

      Or the SRT-101!

    • Anonymous

      No they do not own Minolta, which still exists.

      They bought the camera business including the right to use a subset of the Konica-Minolta IP and designs, at a recurring fee.

      None of the engineers came with that deal, and none of the older designs or technology unless it was also used in the dynax/maxxum line.

      Sony thought to wuickstart their dslr business buy removing a competitor from the market, but failed to get a good deal, KM on the other hand got a brilliant deal.

  • Michael Devitt

    I wonder what the size/weight will be of this camera/lens combo. Seems like the 135 format era of compact film SLRs (OM-x) is going back. I think Olympus is involved to design compact primes for this system, because small body with huge lenses doesn’t make sense compared to overall bulk of 135 format DSLRs. Remember the idea behind the OM system to rival Leica M? With current technology they could go even further. And for the price/performance ratio there is still the mFT system no. 1 ;).

  • Robbie

    So it’s a faux-DSLR design, why is it call an OMD design?

    • olly…


    • Macintosh Sauce

      It’s OM-D NOT OMD! OMD stands for Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark.

      • Gabriel

        And both are good :)

        • Chez Wimpy

          Olympus should have gone and secured the rights to OMD songs for advertisements now that a line is established. Telegraph, Souvenir, Of All The Things We’ve Made, (skip Enola Gay) ect, ect hold up incredibly well… the tie-in could have been better than the Canon Kiss (KISS songs) line. Of course, OMD weren’t exactly household names in Japan, YMO seems to have had some protectionist marketing going on here, their contemporary Gary Numan is completely MIA.

          • Anonymous

            Ya well, they failed to register related domain names as well (of which I own many now)

      • helios


  • tomas

    the FF Sony body has totaly different shape than OM5 …or I am blind ?

    I must admit the FF grip is same as on EM1 though…ugly like additionaly glued in :-)

    • The cam in this picture is an existing APS-C NEX, not the forthcoming new FF…

      • tomas

        ah …ok …that means I am blind as I cant read a text :-)))0

  • Viezevure

    Sony/Oly best of both worlds. Just ad a punch of Fuji to the combo and we will get the perfect camera.

    • Perhaps that is what admin is getting at with this post (before he was brutally assaulted at the top of the page, LOL.).
      Maybe he knows more or has suspicions that he is not passing on yet,,,,hmmmmmmmm

  • SteB

    It would be very odd if Sony produce a FF mirrorless camera which looks like an OMD. I’m not sure if this means it will just have a vaguely classic film SLR look, or is more specifically modelled on the Olympus OM. That’s because the original Olympus OM film SLR was a very recognizable design that kept it’s same basic shape from the OM1 to the OM4 Ti. None of the other manufacturers, including Minolta did this. Their various models all had different designs and shapes.

    If the design is really close to OMD it would seem to indicate a lot more cooperation between Olympus and Sony. It’s also intriguing that Mr Terada mentioned full frame cameras.

    • (Sorry I posted above, my response is to SteB)
      Perhaps that is what admin is getting at with this post (before he was brutally assaulted at the top of the page, LOL.).
      Maybe he knows more or has suspicions that he is not passing on yet,,,,hmmmmmmmm

  • I wonder how optical edge sharpness can be achieved with a short mirrorless flange back and a big FF sensor. Prone to color shifts and pixel vignetting I’m afraid. This must be the farthest you can come from telecentricity, and will be heavily dependent on sw corrections.

  • I think they can make the lenses small enough *if they choose*.

    Just look at the sony FF with fixed Zeiss lens, that one is 35mm 1.4 and its tiny.

    Let’s hope they’re going after the people who prefer to travel light with their FF line.

    • You want to say F2, not F1.4 (DSC-RX1)

      • Damn, you’re right! Even at f/2, its a pretty good size, but not as impressive as I thought originally.

        • Anonymous

          Making a 35/2 small isn’t that difficult. Now try to make a 85/2 small, you’ll encounter something called laws of physics somewhere on the way.

  • Charles

    I´m a little confused about the implication of that design. If that Sony FF would look similar to an OMD, I might doubt the justification for the OMD em1 – thinking that maybe Sony will also “borrow” some lens design knowhow from Olympus, it would make high end Oly cameras obsolete (thinking of compact FF Sony camera with Oly designed lenses).

    Otherwise, I see a camera that looks like the Sony RX1 with evf and some slow and expansive Zeiss lenses and big, mediocre Sony lenses. In this scenario I would happily stick with Oly, hoping that they will get the best Sony sensor tech in the future.

    • The Sony FF will cost around 3000$/Euros body only. The E-M1 is less than half the price. Don’t compare different classes. Besides, Sony has only few lenses for the new FF (E mount) and 90% of the FF users will go for Canon/Nikon because of the huge amount of lenses available.

      • Charles

        I´m thinking more long term – 3 years ahead, maybe. From what I read the less expansive Sony FF would be around 2000$ and that´s not too far away from Oly´s offerings. In regard to lenses – how many do you need? Most of the time I use the Pana 25mm 1.4 and 1-3 nice primes would be enough for me.

        If I could choose between the Oly em1 with 12-40 for 2200 and a Sony FF for 2000 and one prime for 1000 – if the Sony + lens would be similar in weight and build quality but with FF sensor and great iq of the lens – I would buy the Sony FF.

      • Boooe

        Have you forgotten NEX can use any SLR lens?
        And how many lenses does average shooter need? FF lenses are heavy anyway.
        Does it matter much if there are hundreds of lenses you don’t need, don’t have money to buy and don’t have space in backpack to put to.

        • Irresistable

          And can you tell us how many SLR lens are optimized for NEX sensors in order to retrieve best performnace between lens and sensor? There are just few native APS-C NEX lens in the market now. And I’m wondering how many native FF E-mount lens will be.

          • Boooe

            There are some problems with rangefinder lenses on digital sensors, but SLR lenses work fine. They are not optimized for any sensor.

            • Williams

              Actually that is a problem. Because SLR lenses are not optimized for any sensors, you cannot guarantee the best performance from the combination of sensor and lenses. From engineering viewpoint, a lens will demonstrate its true optical performance if it works with a sensor that the lens was designer for. Vice versa, we can see the actual sensor performance if you use it with the lenses that are made for that sensor.

              In fact I’m wondering about the solid support from native FF E-mount as well.

        • OMega

          and don’t you forget u43 can use just about every slr lens ever produced and they all work very well.

  • Good for Sony, but I’m a little concerned about the size/speed/quality compromises of the lenses for this system. The mount barely covers the sensor and the distance between them requires some seriously masterful optical design as it is.

  • JimD

    2 versions.
    The one with Sony on the front.
    The one with Olympus on the front.

  • man

    pics or it didn’t happen (the FF OMD)

  • What I find funny is that Admin is now behaving like one of our ordinary FF trolls :)

    Didn’t they say it all along?

    But do any of you leprechaums WHO ARE NOT BUYING ANY CAMERA AND NOT SHOOTING ANY PICTURE have an idea of what will cost even a moderately sized mirrorless 35mm?

    I am talking about the lenses, not only the bodies. We are probably running in thousands and thousands of Escudos :)

    In other words we are running into an EXPERIMENT, which could turn out in a total FAILURE, like so many experiments by Sony.

    Therefore Terada did well to be prudent. It might end into nothing although I am quite sure Oly would welcome to sell 2000 Escudos lenses through Sony.

    So enjoy you starry eyes…

    • Boooe

      I own a very compact FF 50/2. Mounted to APS-C NEX it’s too narrow for everything but portraits. What’s wrong in mounting that lens to a FF body?

      • That due to the register of mirrorless you will have all sorts of problems at the edges, especially with Legacy wides.

        So you will have to buy new lenses anyway – if you can afford them, that is. Oly and Sony will laugh all the way to the bank, but you won’t

      • MarcoSartoriPhoto

        @booo 50mm will hardly give you problems: these issues usually concern wide and ultra wide angles, from 35mm (not always) and wider, to 15mm, where issues are really noticeable.
        I find 50mm to be a great usable focal lens, from street shooting to landscape to portraits, let’s see how legacy lenses like yours (and mine) will perform on the two FF models.

    • bébert

      Since when are you taking photo Almaric? I mean, something different that teleshooting young girls from your balcony ?

      • Funnily it didn’t use to be forbidden in Paris, they are part of my scenery as the rest, which is very well viewed anyway.

        Or are you moralistic? Tsk, tsk…

        • Anonymous

          They are viewed because your face is like poison ivy and you keep babbling about art and photography, while in reality you take only voyeuristic photos at unknown people and post them on Flickr without their permission. Fact is that being a voieur is sick, not art. And your photos lack of composition basic skills. No surprise nobody is flagging any of your shots as favourite.
          There’s no need to link photos to compare to yours: whatever crappy shot will at least have a better taste than what you post.

          • Yikes…angry much?

            • Anonymous

              The guy above has some points. Even Am wrote that the most important thing is to write about his pics so he can have more views. Sad.

    • JWhite

      Escudos are dead. I still have some. And I do miss the lira bills, they were so cool. I bet these cameras would be cheaper in escudos or lire.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t they still have liras in Turkey, don’t they. That must be cheaper then

  • Ginny

    Sony rumors ADMIN said “no IBIS” …. hmmmm interesting :)

    • Alex

      New! 18 minutes ago | Reply

      Sony rumors ADMIN said “no IBIS” …. hmmmm interesting :)

      This is quite astonishing, IBIS is the most strategic device Sony can borrow from Olympus, Ibis could be an explanation of the OM-D like design, Ibis in a Sony FF mirrorless (CDAF+PDAF like EM1 or translucent?) can be a video killer against 5D/6D.

    • What? I thought that was one of the first things they were gonna pass up to their line of cameras…weird!

  • mountainwalker

    “Sonympus” joined FF projects: Never forget mathematics: How much weighs an architecture model 1:25 compared to the same model in the same material 1:50? The correct answer is 8 times as much, 2^3. Therefore, in theory 100 grams of glass in mFT results in 800 grams of glass in FF using the same lens construction. Happy carrying around!

  • The Return of the sexy Pentaprism hump~ It is a must have~

  • Gabriel

    Not surprising, the ILC-3000 (no, it’s not a 50’s vacuum cleaner name) have this stupid form factor to lure the DSLR guys. I say stupid, because there is no mirror, and so there is no need for a big hump in the middle. GX7 have a better design.

    • Anonymous

      GX7 has a pathetic EVF. With a hump, a big and nice EVF!

    • I can attest to this. I know some people who went with that model strictly so customer wont ask questions about where the “pro” camera is.

  • matt jones

    Good idea, they are going up against Leica so better to grab some styling from Olympus rather than the normal plain Jane Sony designs.

  • JL

    I would not be too suprised, if Oly put the Oly OMD-FF1 name to the same product and brought a couple of new lenses to that territory too. They are already developing some lenses to Sony system – why not sell them under their own brand too?

    In fact, a “full frame” system would benefit more from the mirrorless design than the FT or APS-system: larger mirror – > more space needed, more weight on mirror, more moving weight, more mirror slap… Take that away, and you have a quite nicely behaving camera (hopefully). The lenses won’t be as compact anyway.

  • facetime

    Sony is just throwing crap up to the fan and seeing what will stick. DSLRs and DSLR AF is still far superior than anything mirrorless. Optical VFs are still better for serious photography. I love mirrorless cameras, but in all honesty they’re nowhere near the maturity of a full blown FX DSLR setup.

    • Olaf Hall

      At least contrast based AF is exact, far better than any old mirror slamming box! S-AF on my E-M5 is also pretty fast. With additional PDAF to help its not long before mirrorless also is faster in and better in C-AF.

      And of course, optical viewfinders are better if you do not care to know what your file is looking like before you shoot!

      • facetime

        I shoot both, you’re just spouting non-sense. S-AF is good on both systems, probably better on mirrorless. PDAF focusing on mirrorless cameras are still subpar and I’ve already tried the hybrid focusing on the E-M1. The nikon V1/V2 still best it and even then the Nikon 1 is on par with only Nikon’s entry SLR AF performance. Again, false information regarding WYSIWYG with EVFs. Optical VFs on top DSLRs like the D4/1DX and D800/5Dm3 are still better. When looking through an EVF you’re looking at some digital representation, not the true analog view.

        • Anonymous

          Hmm, how many pdaf focus points does a nikon 1 have?

          And eh, it seems you do not understand that an OVF litterally shows you the light that doesn’t hit the sensor while an EVF shows you what the sensor sees. Not saying which one is better, merely pointing out your ignorance.

          Also, you are stating opinions like facts, a clear sign of bein a rather presumptive person, especially when it is about things that you evidently do not understand.

    • I dont know man. One of the many reasons I sold my D90 to get an EM-5 was the focus speed. Still, I dont get why people are so obsessed with AF speed, most cameras today (I said most) have decent speed. I can understand if you shoot sports or something like that but for the majority of people it should not be an issue.

  • There are other considerations too. Being akin to Medium Format in digital, it makes much more sense in the Studio than in the Street.

    It is much easier to reach hyperfocal with m4/3, tele work is also much easier. It’s not even surprising that with the RX1 Sony was addressing the luxury goods sector, that is Leica substitution.

    But who really uses Leica today, except the many who want to show off, and the few that cannot give up traditional way of shooting. That is why I am skeptical that it might be v. good for mirrorless.

    Instead the killer combination was Street Shooting exactly for the combination of features offered by m4/3.

    Don’t forget that street shooters and PJ often use compacts too.

    Finally if 35mm is today only 8% of the market how many will be concerned?One could widen the market but hardly to make it the dominant market like it was with film: it had several annoyances anyway, for a resolution that was less than m4/3.

  • Chris

    None of this news is doing any good for my wallet, I’m gonna have to invest in m43 fuji AND sony now :P

    • Ben

      Hahaha that’s exactly how I feel! Sony for the FF mirrorless option, a M43 system for when I want those telephoto shots where the 2x multiplier really comes in handy, and a Fuji for their super fast primes and analog shooting experience. All the companies seem to offer something truly unique which is excellent no doubt, but it sure makes for one heck of an expensive hobby!

      • Chris

        Sooner or later im gonna have one of each with a 50mm equivalent lens to go with it.

  • Ben

    I’m not a micro 4/3 shooter and instead use an NEX and love my camera, however, I also have an interest in what’s happening on the 4/3 front as well. Though, being that we’re all mirrorless fans here and can all agree on the benefits a mirrorless design has over the archaic technology of DSLRs, I don’t get why there seems to be this animosity between some of the more “hardcore” micro 4/3 users and everyone else like Sony, Fuji, or Samsung users. It definitely goes both ways though (I’m not singling out those particular micro 4/3 owners) as some APSC mirrorless system fanboys run on about the benefits of a larger sensor and trolling this site. Let’s be honest though, both approaches to a small mirrorless package have their benefits and negatives. There is no reason to tout one as the best solution to a mirrorless camera approach.

    If you are looking for that inherent shallower depth of field and slightly better high ISO performance, the APSC sensor (if all other things are equal) will provide that. However, looking for a compact telephoto setup or have no need for the shallower DOF, then the 2X multiplier of the micro 4/3 sensor is perfect for that. Also not to mention, equivalent lenses of both systems will always reveal micro 4/3 as the more portable. Case in point, my NEX 5n is tiny, but the lenses hold it back from being a truly pocketable camera that the body suggests it can be.

    Sorry for this long rant, but I’m just tired of the rivalry that seems to pop up here on this forum between the sensor sizes.

    • zinjanthropus

      THANK YOU! :-)

    • To me 4/3 was born obsolete, although with v. good lenses. I have the 4/3 9-18 which is much better than the m4/3 equivalent, but there is no comparison in size.

      So m4/3 is not only good for 2x teles, but also for small size, witness the 14/2.5, which has become one of the classics for street shooting.

      I still have a couple 35mm lenses, notably a 50mm ZJ, but inevitably it drops resolution at the edges.
      One of the great features of 4/3 was to be EVEN ACROSS THE FRAME.

      Now today you can do a lot of electronic cooking so some bad effects of bigger format can be offset.
      However the combination of short distance to flange and wide format is still potentially lethal. That is why I expect Oly’s lenses for Sony to be twice as expensive, just like a Zeiss.

      Will you have the money? Will it be worth? Are you sure that you don’t already have all the resolution and the DR you need with m4/3?

      Those who expect mirrorless FF to be cheap ‘in 3 years times’, lest more practical, are still starry eyed.

      So I understand why Oly pushes the E-M1. It will probably make good sense, but not at a current prices after the 4/3 boat people have paid the initial bill.

  • Camaman

    Great news!
    But central EXF on a body small as RX1 might not be such a good idea from the ergonomic stand point…

  • Scott

    The lenses will be huge on it so its not direct competition. The future is mirrorless with all companies. The mirror is just stupid at this point with technology we have.

  • Anonymous

    I own both MFT lenses and a collection of vintage manual focus “full frame” lenses and use and enjoy both on my MFT camera (E-pm2). To me the “ultimate” camera would be a FF mirrorless camera like the NEX FF (Olympus could do it as well) which would work with vintage MF lenses with “dumb” adapters and have “smart” adapters to use MFT lenses with full function. Since Sony and Olympus are cooperating this is certainly technically possible. To go one step further there would also be “programmable open source electronic adapters” for other FF and APSC AF lenses which would allow the use of virtually all lenses on the camera. Depending on the level of interest in each lens and the ability of the lens fans to get “open source” programmers to work on the adapter code, a level of function from zero (for lenses no one cares about) to full function (for lenses with a passionate following) would be possible.

    Think of how great it would be to be able to use vintage or other FF glass in either it’s native FF or APSC or MFT depending on the situation. I even think it would be creative and fun to see what a MFT lens looks like on a FF or APSC sensor. The camera would be small and light with MFT lenses and would also be able to use FF lenses on a FF sensor with shallow DOF if needed or shot “cropped down” for Macro and Tele shots. Rather than divide the camera world this would appeal to a large segment of the “high end market” which is all that is going to be left with the advances in cell phone cameras.

    • Anonymous

      A m4/3 lens does not produce a large enough image circle to properly cover a 135 format sensor, so no, it can’t be done, at least not without cropping the image to 1/4 of the sensor.

      And that would for the very large majority of people turn it into a needlessly expensive m4/3 camera.

  • so Olmpus will be history in a few years?

    • Ren

      Will be interesting to see which system will survive, NEX or m43

  • Raist

    Admin (Patrick?), this post makes zero sense. There is not much there that looks like an OMD other than the size. In fact, if that IS the size for Sony’s FF offering, that’s pretty interesting.

    Your assumption that this is an Olympus/Sony collaboration seems really odd considering Sony most likely had that in the cards since the RX1 planning.

    • Raist

      Please note I am not against the news, just the explanation that this is a borrowed MFT design or that it somehow implies an Olympus-Sony collaboration. :-)

    • JimD

      It does not have to be right or wrong. As admin said its opposition so its of interest. It may also be collaboration which is also interesting it may be coopetition which requires cooperation and gives competition at the same time….

      So… The post make perfect sense.

      • Raist

        When I said it makes no sense I didn’t mean te act of posting it at 43rumots. I am talking about specifically that this “borrows from an mft design”- well, how so? Tht looks to me more nex7 than anything.

        And as gas as olympus collaboration goes that’s speculation of the highest order (unless its a rumor from trusted source or such).

  • JimD

    Just had a look at sony rumors site. Interesting thing is sony is making the new A7 with 2 different sensors. Not a new idea but covering 2 bases in one shell.

    This is similar to what I said some some ago for Olympus to try for OMD.
    Have a high density pixel version tuned for maximum image sharpness and colour rendition at say ISO50 or 100 with a maximum usable ISO of 400 ( bit low you say? Use irnd filters, they work). The second version with a lower pixel density large photosite sensor tuned specifically to high ISO usage. For best image and colour at high ISO. (maybe even supply a colour correction filter for use below a certain ISO).

  • Ren

    Exciting times coming, sadly I bet the FF Sony will cost a arm and a leg. Wonder how much more or less it will be compared to a full frame DSLR.

    Hopefully they can do something where they can share lenses between the FF sony and any FF future Olympus.

  • Milt

    I am late to the party, perhaps as usual, but I find this an interesting post, and Admin’s reason for posting it appropriate. I agree that we need to hear about other mirrorless activities that have some relation to m4/3rds developments, and encourage Admin to keep on posting such news. With some of the comments on this site, he probably needs all the encouragement he can get.

    I wonder how much difference there is between m4/3rds and APS-C and even FF image quality in the real world now. In this new reality, it is m4/3rds that has the advantage because of smaller and lighter lenses(although some FF ones are small and light as has been pointed out), and an extensive system of different sizes of lenses and bodies for different purposes.

  • Bruce

    Given the fact that several posters to this thread have spent a lot of time discussing peripheral issues, I decided to jump in and ask a question about sensor format that many will consider off-topic.

    I have a question for any geek/engineer/tech people out there. Due to a physical disability I have great difficulty holding a camera in vertical mode. (Due to a character defect I have great difficulty getting my tripod to hold a camera in vertical mode).

    As a result, I have always wished that camera makers would adopt square format sensors. Then I could always hold the camera “horizontally” and crop it to a rectangle later.

    I could be wrong, but it seems that the image circle of a given lens “wastes” a lot of image because it falls above and below the short side of a rectangular sensor.

    So why not build square sensors? One reason is that the image circle would not cover the corners of a square sensor. Another is that the sensor would be bigger and more expensive. And I’m sure there are many other reasons as well.

    Nonetheless, here are my questions: although I have drawn little pictures for myself to get a vague sense of the areas involved, could someone quantify for me the variables? For instance, how much of the image area is “wasted” in FF and m4/3? How much of the sensor area would be wasted using the same lens on a square FF and m4/3 sensor? Likewise, what are the cost implications, i.e., how much more would the square version cost to manufacture over the rectangular?

    Long live 4/3 and FF, and thanks.

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