43 RumorsLog in

Arrrrrggggghhhhh does it has a built in EVF or not that is the question?

Nobody can deny that the 4/3 sensor will not be able to match the image quality from an APS-C sensor. But of course the cameras are much more than the sensor alone. For 2 years, I’ve been taking around a quarter of all my photos with the Lumix 7-14 ultrawide zoom. There isn’t a lens for the NEX system that will shoot at 14mm equivalent that is as sharp, contrasty and compact. So the larger sensor in the NEX doesn’t help me very much.

So I’m more interested in the GF3. It might make a good backup camera for my GH2 and, if I had to, I could use the 7-14 mounted to the GF3.

Admin,

I am sorry, that people got so offended by my posts. I just wanted to share my experiences along the frustrating m4/3 path. As I guess, just wasn’t for me. Anyway, I must stress, that I never offended anyone, which sadly doesn’t go for the others, who were quickly ready to insult me, my mother or my girl. I am sorry for them as they caught a flame so quickly, one would never guess, is possible. Most of all I want to repeat, I never disliked the m4/3 optics or, that, for god’s sake, I liked the NEX lenses. Hell no! I was just talking about the better liveliness and feeling I am getting from the stuff I get from the NEX compared to the flat outcomes from the smaller m4/3 sensors. I really regret, I wanted to share my experiences with the people here, who’s reactions were more aggressive than I would ever think. Can only hope, they would ever try the same lens on a bigger sensor, how much better the outcomes would be..

Jeremiah,

Happy to see another self-proclaimed psychoanalyst. Just a pitty I didn’t ask you for that. And as allways, its just funny to see how people use autoprojection, when judging others. Only to end up talking about themselves, covering it behind pointing at another people. Hope, you get, what I mean, mr. Freud.

Anyway, maybe one day, you will find out, that there still are real fairies out there. Angels of pure heart, where it doesn’t play a role, how old they are. As they overshadow all the old, used, frustrated and desperate for anyone, who they can have a baby with, older and “real” women around. (For the real guys out there, just like you:>)

Frosti7:

Happy that at least one thoughtfull and understanding person surfaced around. The rest of the herd just joined the mass. As usual. Do you know, that 85-90% of people DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN OPINIONS? They just take what they see, hear around. Maybe around only one 1/10th (and decreasing) of the populus is able and strong enough to come to and have an own opinion.

Well, I guess, it shown again…

Tobias W:

NO, NO, NO! DOF is not the only criteria for judging IQ. If that would be so, I would kept the Nokton 25/0.95 with the ep1 and lived happilly ever after.

MK:

Gosh, another analyst.
Just please, try to understand the following. Without your assumptions and guesses:

1. I am a private person, who has nothing to do with SONY.
2. in fact I was, for a long time, an Oly fan. Had the E410, then the EP1.
3. I really am sorry for trying to express myself more thoroughly than in a few short sentences as is usual. I can typewrite, so its not a problem, especially, when the weather outside is crappy, and I got spare time on my hands.
4. People, don’t be so paranoid and conspirative about anyone with a different opinion.

So Pablo I suppose everyone should go and buy a View Camera camera or at the very least a digital medium format camera because the “Tiny” sensors in the APS-C DSLRs or FF DSLRs are “not there yet”? A bigger sensor can always offer potentially better quality but you don’t go and buy the biggest sensor camera available in the market. Instead you study the tradeoffs between size, cost, quality etc and then decide what works best for your needs. Its not a competition about “my camera is better than yours”. Its about “this camera meets my needs better than that other camera”. m43 sensors are significantly bigger than the cpmpact/bridge cameras but somewhat smaller than APS-C. For many users they offer the right tradeoff between size and quality, for many others they don’t – one size does not fit all. There is nothing magical about APS-C either, the FF sensors outperform the APS-C sensors in much the same way.

I’ve already got some m43 lenses for my GH2, so I may just be tempted if the GF3 body-only is cheap…

this is a nice site otherwise, but i find all the contrived links to ebay and amazon in the text of every article to be a little obnoxious. i would actually rather just see a google adsense banner.

GF3 would be a good gift for your GirlFriend

If this sells at below $400, there will be a pretty good market out there. Not for me though.

The GF3 is cute, sexy, tiny and looks like it could be a LOT of FUN and will sell a TON! Slap that 20mm, 14mmor 12mm on it and have some FUN! If you can’t have FUN with a camera… What can we say?

Panasonic’s line-up is looking pretty damn good: GH2, G3, GF2 (?) and GF3. This is a great bunch of cameras. GH2 is the flagship M4/3 camera (for now), maybe Oly will release something Compelling, maybe another incremental update masquerading as something new.

All these people whining about girlie-cam, Hello Kitty (that’s OLY!), whatever. Get a grip and over it. It’s the 21st century and throwback camera bodies like the PENs, or X100 will appeal to a TINY, tiny minority. US! Or old dudes who remember what a metal, manual camera was.

So, Pannies are mostly non-traditional camera bodies, except for the GH2. So what? Today’s cameras are computers, at least as much as they are cameras. Touch interface is a ligitimate option. Think Windows garbage vs. Mac usability and elegance.

The only way M4/3 will succeed as a PLATFORM is to have SOME camera bodies that have mass appeal that drive sales, bring in money and allow for increased R&D. The MORE cameras that support the M4/3 standard the better… For ALL of us! Panasonic is delivering. Olympus, until they make some ground breaking announcements, is NOT.

Bottom line. You no like? You no BUY!

If it is around $350 body only, I might get it…..

It has a mirrored LCD screen so you can look at yourself while taking a picture.

Admin,
This site should be focussed on the development and use of FourThirds sensor cameras, not on Mirrorless per se, or Mirrorless vs DSLR. Personally, I like the broader focus of MirrorlessRumors.com, but hardly anyone uses it. Shouldn’t we
move on from 43 into the broader discussion of all MILC (Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera) systems, and MILC vs DSLR and MILC vs high-end compact systems?

@Pablo, so there is much more depth to the results produced by a Sony sensor? Is it a full frame Sony DSLR you are referring to? And if so, are you comparing JPEG or RAW? The color depth is 12-bit in RAW on both Olympus and Sony DSLRs (aside from Sony Full Frame), if I’m not mistaken. And the combination of Oly glass, size, cost, IQ and color accuracy of the Olympus system (especially when paired with hi quality glass) beats the Sony in so many ways.

Sony makes good sensors, and is good a making translucent mirrors and small bodies, but as a system, they are a joke. Furthermore, there glass is “all” junk. Have a day!

It looks like a toy camera for tween girls. I’ll bet half the people that buy it won’t even realize it has interchangeable lenses and half of them will wonder why the lens sticks out all the time. The GF series is no longer serious competition outside of Hello Kitty enthusiasts.

At least there is an hotshoe !

Good call! I will behave, I promise

I apologize, and will refrain from making such replies in the future. That said I agree with accounts being required. The “troll issue” could be handled better if we all had to login.

G3 is not more large size, so GF1, EVF in camera body.

1) no, looks fine. Besides the way a camera looks has nothing to do with how well it takes pictures.
2) no, how is your figure holding up?
3) no, because it contains the flash or hotshoe.

I was very skeptical of touch controls on a camera.

I started shooting photos as a kid with a Konica II and a handheld light meter, so I know all about external controls. When I got my GH2 I found that for some things, touch controls are really quite nice to use. Changing the focus point is extremely handy. I shoot mainly with manual lenses in manual mode, so the control wheel is the control I use most.

When I tried the GF2 touch interface, it’s actually very nice to use. NO, it’s not the same as having dedicated buttons and dials, but quite usable…. non-intimidating and FUN! What a concept!

The difference is that the screen requires slight pressure, it’s not capacitive like the iPad or iPhone that need only the slightest contact.

The GF3 looks quite nice. The design is sexy. If it handles well, I would certainly consider getting one. It could be a perfect point of entry for new users and current M4/3 users looking for a second body that doesn’t require a big size, weight or money commitment. Hopefully it can share batteries with the GF2 (at least)!

I was thinking about getting a decent P&S to augment the GH2, but something like the GF3 becomes a handy sidekick or satellite camera, because it can share lenses with my GH2. I could pop the 20mm on it, hand it to my girlfriend and she’d be happy (the GH2 is intimidating to her) and there wouldn’t be glaring differences in IQ between my GH2 shots and hers.

+1 bilgy!

I want one! Nice looking.

+1

If you have two differently sized sensors, but use both with the identical lens, you have to change your distance to the object to get a silmilar field of view – for example a head shot – and that changes the dof.

It’s similar with different focal lengthes on the SAME sensor and the reason why wide angle lenses seem to have such a wide dof.

It’s getting a little bit more complicated if you compare different focal lengthes on differently sized sensors.

For me is quite simple : I don´t like it at all, so I´ll not buy one of this. I prefer to invest my money in lenses, oly 12mm or PL 25mm even in this little thing.

I’m surprised on this close-up pic I find the GF3 not as ugly as I thought yesterday. In fact to have my 20mm 1.7 lens with a mini body with as an everyday-tool it quite tempting…

I’d rather have it be the same size as the GF1, but just be better quality, rather than smaller and weird looking.

omox… the smaller DOF is not really smaller in terms of millimeters of depth that look sharp.

it only looks smaller because of the compressed background view.

go read some books about it….

Looking good! Now make some *bright* and *flat* primes to go with that, preferably with internal focusing. You don’t need flash or a monopod or tripod then and the camera is easy to keep with you, yet has excellent image quality. You could do stuff that’s not possible with any digital camera right now really. Also battery life could be awesome.

Perhaps this will be available by christmas?

I think it’s like cell phones: almost every high end phone now has touch screen exclusively for operation. However, for power users (i.e. who send a lot of emails or who work in docs on their phone) there are still some models that feature a full size qwerty keyboard.

I think touch screen has some advantages for cameras, although they are not ideal for all users.

Having said that, I think that a lot of the complaining about the touch screen on the GF2 is hyperbole and irrelevant.

Look at the omission of the Mode dial on the GF2 (available on the screen). These professional dudes who complain about that will probably only use A-Mode or M-mode, and how often do you change the shooting mode anyway?

Another one of the complaints is that the touchscreen doesn’t allow you to keep your eye on the viewfinder while changing settings with the dials. But how relevant is that complaint for a camera like the GF2 or GF3? The cameras that do have a decent EVF (G2/GH2) allow the user to go completely around the touch screen operation.

Paparazzi/Sports/Wildlife photographers who demand the best of physical controls will probably look at higher end DSLRs anyway (if only for the availability of high end lenses). But for most consumers, touch screen could well make a camera much easier and faster to operate. I like it very much that Panasonic is breaking through the barriers of conventional technology.

> [...] the bigger one wins.
> [...] the bigger sensor wins again.

Well, what counts how a cam sells.

I guess there’ll never be a customer asking for DR or DOF or …
Everbody who knows about also knows why he buys a GF3.

For the GF3 target market it’s the same story as with cars. You can always find lots of reasons why some Seat/VW/Peugeot/… is superior to e.g. the Fiat 500. But the Fiat 500 sells well, just because it’s a reasonable car people really like.

Why we buy Panasonic cameras? Because they have a by far better user interface, excellent handling, very good EVFs, and a good selection of lenses. IQ isn’t as bad as you claim.

The review at Luminous Landscape tells everything someone needs to know about the NEX: a misconception.

+1

A new Pro GF camera comes in Agus / September.

That’s one ugly camera. Should have kept GF1 styling.

Frosti7 :

oh, and YES.

There IS more depth in the bigger sensor photographs than the ones I made with 4/3 and m4/3…

As I wrote, when you take the same lens and put it on two sensors, the bigger one wins. When you compare the same FOV from two lenses, that are equalized by the crop factor, the bigger sensor wins again.

I for myself could compare the oly 14-150 at and the sony 18-200 on several FLs. The results were bad for m4/3. And notice, I am not talking about legacy glass, but dedicated lens-sensor systems. At every FL, the picture from the bigger sony lens and the bigger sensor was better, more contrasty, more 3D separated, more alive.

What is that argument about small lenses and cameras good for, when your shots can not compete and look flat?

I thought compacts and bridge cameras were for that already, weren’t they?

Cheerz, grandpas.

I am going to live my life and “visit” my 18yr. old GF.

Just wanted to open your eyes towards a decision that took myself a long time to make. Ergo understanding that the m4/3 system still “isn’t there yet”.

Anyway, just keep being smarter and don’t evolve with your photography…

I tend to agree… I even find that APS-C is a depressing compromise, let alone something even smaller. I don’t know what will come sooner; an affordable FF compact, or saving up a spare $10,000 for a Leica M9 system.

Well yes, yours is a sensible sentence. Pablo on the other hand is just thinking out loud confusing himself and others in the process. It’s incredible the way he pictures himself as the only and first person discovering this magnificent secret of DoF and FoV relations. Clearly there is no way through his thick shell of boiling madness at this point. Let him settle down first, and maybe he’ll see that there are other people besides the unwary consumer he pictures everyone else to be. Discuss these matters as pro’s and con’s instead of life or death situations.

ADMIN, the new Panasonic GFF, for your eyes only:
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff377/mwkao/Panasonic_GFF.jpg

Actually no. The flip out screen on the NEX cameras makes it quite easy to focus with legacy lenses. I used nothing but adapted lenses when I had my NEX-3…mainly because there were no decent native lenses to choose from

Sony’s poor lens selection aside, I like both systems, but no doubt if adapting full frame lenses is your thing then I would choose NEX and not think twice about it. That APS-C sensor + legacy glass can produces some amazing results.

I’m a happy m4/3′s user at the moment, but I am eagerly waiting to see what the NEX-7 has in store. It’s going to be a tough choice for me between the NEX-7 and the E-P3.

This camera is going to fail. It’s just not as appealing or as capable as the new Nex. I thought the GF1 was a success? I guess not. Why have they moved so far away from it and are continuing to dumb down the GF line. I thought it could become a baby Leica. They can compete with the Nex in terms of controls- they cannot compete when it comes to sensors.

“I have to say that it doesn’t look that bad.”

It looks better than the first two NEXes, but will surely look bad with large lenses. Although I suppose it was not meant for birders in the first place . That said, there are many people in this world who just want good pictures in auto mode and don’t want to bother with settings. And they are more likely to get nice photos in auto from these mini cameras with large sensors than with P&S. Now Panasonic needs a collapsible kit zoom for it, even without OIS. Learn from Samsung 20-50 lens.

It looks really better than I originally thought, However, I think the flash also quite important in some occasions. Looks to me it is a separate piece, would that be bundle together with the package? is it possible to add the EVF. and how is the control overall. I don’t like touch screen anyway only if it is smooth like Andriod or iphone. GF2 is a failure to me, the touch screen just not there yet.

pablo… DOF changes that´s maybe becaue it looks better…. but FOV is the same.

it´s like a crop. 2x25mm or FF50mm = different DOF but same FOV.

Nothing is deformed even at 9mm 4/3, if you keep the right distance. Ah, Grzybu explained it already.

Why is anyone talking to Pablo?

Looks tiny. Are Panasonic making cameras for dwarf-size hands?

Oh, if the M9 wasn’t so expensive, I surely wouldn’t be toying with APS-C.

Anyway… don’t play that game on me with the “small” m4/3 lenses vs the big and ugly NEX lenses… I don’t like both of them! All of them are made from carbon glass and not real, mineral, silicium glass, and you can see the difference in the pictures. Size here, size there… Shen it comes to size, the only real difference I ever saw, are pancakes. Everything else needs a bigger bag and doesn’t fit in a jacket pocket and so gets disqualified. However, when I compare the way a portrait or anything else is rendered AT THE SAME FOV from a 35mm x 2 crop on M4/3, or a similarly small 50mm x 1.5 crop on APSc, I can only say, that I ALLWAYS GET A BETTER LOOKING PICTURE on legacy glass from the bigger sensor. Try it for yourself! When going for FOV equivalent pictures from different FLs, the m4/3 loses. When going for the same lens on different sensor sizes, the m4/3 loses again. This is the main reason, if I were you, I wouldn’t be so happilly looking forward to the 25/1.4 as it will allways be only a 25mm, ergo a WIDEANGLE lens. And it will draw and deform portraits and perspective as a wideangle can. And you will be looking kind of sad, when comparing output from the 25mm x 2 to a 50mm lens on FF, somehow not be willing to understand the reason why your shot looks som 2D and the other one is so lively… So please, try to think of the problem from the optical side too. You dont get a small, light 300mm equivalent for nothing. And the trade-off is mostly the quality of the picture which can not be measured by sharpness or AF speed or lens weight…

I can understand that a bigger sensor has better performance with legacy lenses.

But isn’t it next to impossible to work with a manual focus legacy lens on a body without a viewfinder?

Even on your NEX, you have a crop factor for those lenses. To use the rear display to compose focussed, sharp images must be a pain in the butt. On my E-PL1, I use the EVF only when putting on manual focus lenses.

Tough luck with that on one of those NEX toys where you won’t have an EVF…

that sounds like a great idea!

you better buy a full frame camera.

Netter DR then a NEX

Almost looks like a lens with a sensor glued to it

@Pablo

Glad that you are happy. I have a GH2 and it kicks any sony cam’s A$$ with its still and video performance. At least even with the GF3, you can still stick the oly 40-150 on it and it will not look Ginormous.

Try putting the new 30mm macro or the 18-200mm zoom on the end of your NEX and see it look like a frankenstein monster.. lol…

Sorry guys. But this child’s toy won’t convince me to get back to M4/3. I have the EP1 for longer than a year, but for 4 months haven’t touched it, since I got the NEX3. All my legacy glass performs better on the bigger sensor. And the only thing I keep the m4/3 set, is Oly’s IBIS and the 20/1.7 lens from Pany. Only hoping for a new and better sensor in the next EP, as Pany, thank to it’s stupid IBIS-less strategy, never got my attention…

I am quite amused, how you guys are happy with the pixel peeping results of the new G3 sensor and how you marvel at it’s ISO and sharpness… In the same time forgetting, that it is the screwed DYNAMIC RANGE of the small sensor, which gets noticed in most blown shots in the first place. Just look at the DR results… The old NEX sensor surpasses the new G3 sensor for 1 EV in highlihts… Plus, it can do AUTO HDR… and so on… Not to forget, that the smaller the sensor, the less 3D looking pictures you can get from each focal length. Please, don’t confuse focal length with FOV as there are always some idiots, that proudly claim, that 25mm is a 50 on m4/3.

So no, I guess I won’t do this mistake again, and will probably, for serious shooting, but even personal, spare time, snaps… omit m4/3 as it will never able to give me the plasticity and liveliness of the bigger sensor paired with REAL GLASS lenses. And when the day comes and someone makes a cheap FF compact camera, I will join that boat much more happilly. Until then I am waiting for the NEX 7 which, with it’s most modern sensor technology, will kick everybody’s ass, including Pentax K5, Canon 600D, etc. etc…

Oh, and yeah… The new, modern and most up to date FINALLY PUBLISHED sensors in the G3 and EP3 will look old in just a few months as the NEX7 comes :>

Sorry, for the tone, but I was a loyal Olympus user for several years, but as Oly doesn’t pay me to hold on to it’s products and to defend them, I used my brain and hands and was forced to find out, that I can carry with me a 230g light camera with a bigger sensor, that has the best DR on the market instead of a metallic camera that weighted almost 400g and had a small sensor that blew out white clouds…

What goes to you, Oly users, I can quite understand you. Yes, the IBIS is one great feature, and I do miss it. But, if you shoot legacy glass… TRY TO MOUNT IT ON A CHEAP NEX 3 camera, as I did. I bought the toy new with the IMO great and small 16mm lens for 310 EURO. Put a few adapters from ebay to it, and I couldn’t be happier with the way my Rokkor, Samyang, OM, Voigtlaender lenses render now.

What goes to the Pany users… I seriously don’t know, why you hang to Pany’s cameras.

Looks great, quite possibly my perfect carrying around camera combo, GF3 + 25f1.4

i buy a m43 because i can use different lenses on it.
if i would only use a pancake i would not bother with m43.

therefore SIZE plays a minor role for me.
small is good but it makes no sense to make the body smaller and smaller without any real benefits.

a dial is a must have for my cameras….
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/driving_your_camera.shtml

a hotshoe is a must have for me because i often use speedlight radio triggers.

so i would update from my GF2 … but not to this camera.
i hope panasonic will offer me something better as replacement for my GF2.

Time for Panny to announce a collapsible zoom lens with ois

This is begging the question big time.

By crying out loud about the lack of dials, hot shoe and all the so called essentials, people here are mistakingly implying that this camera should be jack-of-all trade like the GH. Because it is not, it is therefore a lesser photographic tool.

To be honest, I’ve never *ever* seen anyone using a compact camera bloated with any accessory other the occasional strap or mini-tripod. I am willing to bet that hardly anyone on this forum ever did see anything much bigger, and yet only in forums do I hear the LX-5 mentioned because of its hotshoe.

People take a deep breath : GF3 is awesome for specific uses. Thats it thats all! If it doesn’t nearly cover everything, then don’t make it your only body or stick to the GH serie!

rant off.

pink would be a nice color for it. looks like a barbie cam anyway.
im sure paris hilton will love it… with some glitter on it.

pfhh……

Of course it may have a slide on hotshoe cover on top, better than a built in flash. Nice to have a little mystery left!

Amazing how small that is. I agree with Ulli: it makes the 14mm pancake, really a miniscule lens, look pretty big. People expecting an X100 competitor may not like it, but this seems like a perfect little camera on its own for the casual shooter, or a second cam to go along with a GH2 or G3 type of m4/3 camera.

I look forward to seeing more…

That mysterious person didn’t have a picture of its back? So we could stop those EVF, flash speculations…

Correct

looks so tiny because it was shot with wideangle.

ugly piece of gear.
will be for moms and teenage girls.

handling will be a mess i guess. no hotshoe… sux big time.

another camera for snapshot noobs on full auto.
no dial, no hotshoe … no thanks

Why the heck are they still using protruding shoulderstrap attachments? In a camera this small they should make them inside, or on the top corner.

And to be honest, the worst thing about the protruders is that camera is not in balance when standing on the side on a hard object, when taking a standing fhoto whith long shutter time without a tripod. Am I the only one who are concerned about this? (maybe i’ll just cut them off…)

Finaly, i must say that i am lokking forward for pana and olys small cameras (had a gf1 for 1,5 years that are nice, but want to upgrade it)

And even more finaly, thank you for this exelent rumor-site!

Wow. I had no interest in this at all but it’s TINY?! Looks like it’s possibly smaller than my XZ-1!
Stick the 20/1.7 or 14/2.5 on the front and it’s an easy coat pocket cam. 14-42 goes in the other pocket…job done. People will buy this for nice party pics without flash.

Follow that Olympus…

and for the looks.. it´s still ugly.. but who think it looks good now…. hold it in this position and im sure you are happy with it. lol…

well, after that video i though: ugly.

But this one looks pretty nice. And with a flash, that would be simply awesome!

The camera looks kind really cheap. The combiantion of crome, white plastic, silver plastic and the very different styled lens … I don’t know. The picture also does not really show the size. The angle makes it kind of hard to see the dimensions. I guess in few days we know more!

Guys, nobody has the courage to say that the X100 is a special, an interesting, a retro- and professional-like etc. camera, but it’s far to be a really beautiful one?!

of course, just a personal opinion…

Looks nice, i would love to have this. This would replace my p&s camera totally.

It looks like it has an internal flash…

I still prefer G3 for the more professional layout and ergonomy – but should admit that it’s a lovely camera…