(FT5) High End OMD E-M1 has “modified” E-M5 sensor without Anti Aliasing filter.

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I can now confirm that the new High End OMD uses a modified E-M5 sensor. It has 16 megapixel but has on sensor PDAF and no Anti Aliasing filter. Along the new Processor this allows to achieve an improved image quality over the Olympus E-M5.

I have been told this is a great camera with one issue only that is shared with the E-P5. Price could be too high (around $1500 or 1500 Euro).

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  • and the issue/winner is

    CrappyCocco video mode/GX7.

    Admin: video mode spec or no news.

    • admin

      ok, will ask. Should get answer soon!

      • and the issue/winner is

        THANK YOU

      • io

        yes, please! ask for video specs!

        • chronocommando

          get a video machine! This will be tool to make photos.

          • Jon

            videocamera? like the others brands: canikon, panasonic, etc…. video is important to sell cameras!!!! you know?

      • MadManAce

        Does it have dual SD slots? Hard to justify premium pricing for a ‘Pro’ camera without having a backup in case of failure. .

        • Anonymoose

          A pro camera would use CF or XQD.

          • JBL

            no,it must be (secure) SSD internal , fast & furious

        • Tropical Yeti

          You should think about this camera out of the box you know… It’s Olympus… :-)
          It has WiFi. So you can probably configure it, that it simultaneously sends pictures to your mobile or tablet. That’s your second storage card. And if you somehow drop your camera into the ravine nearby, your backup card is still safely in your pocket… :-)

          • MadManAce

            Wi-Fi is cool for a studio shoot, but sending 300-600 raw images over Wi-Fi in the field will kill the batteries of both the camera and phone/tablet.

      • anonymous

        Hi Admin, any news about video specs? Thanks!

  • http://www.m43foto.se Andreas Fougner Ezelius

    Sounds good to me. 16 megapixel and no AA will make the old 4/3 glass sing!

  • http://www.m43foto.se Andreas Fougner Ezelius

    Admin: Is there any talk about updated processing? Will focus peaking etc have better frame rate?

  • Sören

    I wonder. Giving the 5-axis IBIS to Sony should give Olympus access to their newest and best sensors. I cannot imagine that Sony will just put a modified version of a previous sensor in their new Nex-Cameras.
    The E-M5 sensor is great, but a new premium camera should always shine on the sensor side, rather than just be as good as a year ago. Same mistake as with the E-5. And half a year later a new E-PM3 will trump the premium model with a new sensor…

    • pipi

      exactly!

    • digifan

      Adding PDAF on sensor to the E-M5 sensor means it is a “new” sensor.
      It’s not like you can flick a switch or select a menu option that will make it work.
      It means it was in development together with the E-M5 sensor and Oly solved the issues. It also means that they can R&D the successor. So in maybe end of next year or at the most two years the E-M1 can be replaced with it. That will be a completely new sensor.
      43 lens users are screaming for a camera for their lenses and Olympus promised one long ago, they cannot afford to wait longer to bring it.
      I myself still have a few 43 lenses, but I’d rather have Olympus make a m43 equivalents.

    • Oilymouse

      Sorry, but that sounds like ridiculous forum warrior logic. Do you expect that “latest-n-greatest only” philosophy to hold true in five or ten years time? Put differently: is it never enough?

      Maybe *your* photography always requires the latest sensors at any given time, but for my pictures and videos we’re about there. I’ll be looking at other things.

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/jules/ jules

        Wish there was a “like” button here!

      • Dandy Don

        I thought I would never hit a “good enough” point, having bought at least 10 dslr’s over the years, and 3 times as many P&S and zuperzooms.

        However, the e-m5 hit my “good enough” point (The GH2 almost did).

        So, now I will not buy incremental upgrades like the m1. I’ll wait 3-4 generations for the next one.

        • http://www.gearstylequarterly.com mahmoud El-Darwish

          Clean HDMI out yada yada. Guys! Gals! You want all of it in one package you have to START with canon C300 or Sony FS700. Sad but true. The Nikon D7100 allegedly has a RAWoutofHDMI embedded in it’s firmware, but that hasn’t been unlocked.
          They all refuse to give us the PERFECT $2,000 video camera for a reason, they want us to spend $18,000 for it.

    • ha

      Starting a new additional four thirds sensor line just for the E-M1 may be just too expensive.

    • OM-4ever

      Disagree, but I’m concerned mostly with taking pictures, so I guess it figures…

    • LucioF

      Thats almost never the case, pro line doesn’t mean better iq a pro camera have different feature, take a look at canon or Nikon you will see that the best performer (iq) cameras are the d800e and 5dm3, and those are NOT pro line for those manufacturer,

    • FAUST

      How is a marginally better sensor going to make your photographs better? How is a full frame or even a medium format back going to make your photographs better? Hint: It isn’t. This website is ridiculous. GO MAKE SOMETHING.

  • AhYap

    OMG EM1

    • Phred

      Yeah…keep coming with the facts. My EM-5 is sounding like a keeper until the next generation…..no hybrid, with incrementally small IQ performance (for $1500!) for me…I am sure that it will be an innovative camera, though. The focusing is so good on my EM-5…PDAF is not something that comes to mind with me when I am out shooting… (I am not a sports photographer.)

    • aqasem

      It’s OMD .. Oh My Darling.

      • Phred

        Only Magnificent Digicam

  • Anonymous

    Admin, Any image of the camera yet?

  • MarcoSartoriPhoto

    No AA filter sounds good to me. 1500 Euros sound not that good, I’ll see if I can get a better price as with OMD-Em5.

    • digifan

      But if the E-M1 is as robust as the E-5 than it’ll be worth every cent.
      If it’s (E-M1) officially Pro, meaning supported by OGPS, than even more so.
      Only thing is that OGPS should be more accessible than today, it should be more easy to get a replacement when you’re an OGPS member then presently. Through couriers or local dealers etc.

      • MarcoSartoriPhoto

        Digifan, I’m not saying that it should cost lesser, only that I’ll try to have it for a lower price. :)
        I had the first silver OMD-Em5 on its day one (remember the silver version came out months later), it was supposed to be displayed in a store in Milan and I got it (near Venice) for 1000 Euros, with macro kit.
        I saved 300 Euros, and I’ll try also this time, if I decide to have this new Em1 (l’m keeping an eye on NEX FF too..)

    • alfons

      According to Pekka Potka there is no AA-filter on E-M5 either.

      • MarcoSartoriPhoto

        Alfons, I have read his article, and he suspects that there’s no AA filter. I suspect it too, but this time we have a confirmation.
        Also a base lower ISO would be really nice, at least 100, and not “simulated”.

  • Rick

    This is a big disappointment. There will be an improvement but nothing like what a new model after 2 years since the E-M5 ought to have. If the RX100 can have 20MP and perform so well, a larger M43 sized sensor with the same density should improve the E-M5’s IQ by a lot more than this.

    I think Admin is slow releasing the details to us. Just a couple of things a day.

    • Anonymous

      Perhaps he has a life…

      • Ross

        Yes, and I think Rick needs to get a life. 😉

      • http://www.piter.ch/potschajiw/fotos/fotos.html Matthias

        With current sensor technology, there will not be much improvement. Maybe organic sensors will be the next big step. Anyway, all current sensors are good enough for making excellent pics.

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

      anyone else come to find out what ‘Rick’ wants
      1) it hasnt been 2 years,
      2) typically Olympus tweaks an existing sensor
      3) this sensor would have required existing rework/modification

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/33496987@N08/ Ulli

        +1

      • Oilymouse

        All agreed. Would have made no sense to do anything else. His disappointment is really his problem; this is just a reality check.

        Moreover, I hope Olympus will always be a safe haven for people that don’t want anything over 16mp.

      • Mr. Reeee

        Olympus always tweaks the processing engine, which can make marked differences even with an “old” sensor. It’s one of their strengths.

        Just look at how they managed to improve image quality, over 3 generation of PENs, using the older Panasonic 12MP sensor. There were always complaints about the recycled sensor, but not so much over the improved image quality.

        • ph

          Hmm. If you compare RAW’s from e-p1 with those from e-p3 over at dpreview, the e-p1 ones look best.

    • digifan

      OM-D E-M1 was released in april/may 2012, that means it is LESS than 2 years old, In fact it’s ONE year and three months old!!!!

      • Pharque Moi

        Back to the Future

        • digifan

          Meant was E-M5 ofcourse but it’s not possible to modify posts

    • Matt

      This is a special M43 camera for 4/3 lens owners and E-5 owners. it’s not really the real upgrade for E-M5. So it is expensive DUE to the adapter and smaller volume of sales. The real upgrade, an E-M7 will come later when a better sensor with more MP and IQ is available, with a more reasonable price for a popular camera.

      • Anonymousse

        I wonder if the adapter will work with Pany cameras, or if Oly will disable that.

        • Daav

          My Guess: It is not just the adapter that will allow full use of 4/3 lenses, it is the additional sensor capabilities and circuitry that will allow that. Oly doesn’t need to do anything. The adapter is just an extender and conduit for the signals that transfer information to and from the camera. The additional capabilities are in the camera body. The extender may work with Panasonic bodies, but until the bodies themselves are capable of providing the additional information the 4/3 lenses need it won’t help them. I am sure that Oly will be happy to share the technology, for a price, or perhaps it will become part of the overall m4/3 spec, eventually.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/ronnbot/ ronnbot

          The key parts are on sensor PDAF and new processor. The adaptor itself might just be the existing MMF-3, which works on Panasonic too, but it won’t be fast since AF improvements with 4/3 lenses is achieved via the components inside the body of the E-M1.

        • JBL

          MMF depend by on-sensor PDAF,pany has no PDAF sensor(this-time) may can operate without better AF speed,
          i think pany will release new AF depend on new M4/3 lens,no need 4/3 lens.

          @admin ,i know GX7 is not last body of 2013,if you have new information ,show me

    • aqasem

      24M, PDAF, Pro Video, BSI, articulared screen, what else ?

  • http://www.43rumors.com/members/sneye/ sneye

    To be honest, “image quality” is the least of my concerns about this camera. Had a look at DPReview’s GX7-EP5-5DIII comparison and the differences at 100% are so small you will never be able to see them in real life situations. On the other hand, there are some issues which deserve attention:
    * PDAF accuracy with 4/3 and m4/3 lenses
    * focus tracking capabilities with same lens groups
    * power consumption when heavier 4/3 lenses are mounted
    * the severity of aliasing artifacts

    • Rick

      You have different needs then. For me, I don’t care about 43 lens use at all. I want to continue to use a small camera system, not big, heavy and super expensive lenses mounted with an adapter to get better image quality. I would rather get the better image quality through a brand new sensor while using small lenses. M43 is supposed to be about a more compact system.

      • Ross

        Then this model isn’t for you. Go get an E-P5, E-M5, E-PL5 or E-PM2 or else wait for next year’s models instead. Your lack of interest in 4/3’s lenses doesn’t matter to those that have been waiting a long time for this model. This is the Pro model designed for Pro use that includes the Pro lenses such as the 4/3’s HG & SHG range as well as M4/3’s lenses.

      • Uth

        I quite agree with Rick, even I have an old version of 25mm/1.4 and waiting for the M4/3 camera that 100% support the old 4/3 lenses. However, If the IQ is not really amazing and only have PDAF sensor in it, I think the price should be that high.

        Olympus always presents some new technology and up the price, however the IQ is not really different from the other company. I doubt that how many people wanna buy this camera?

        • Uth

          Should “not” be that high..

          ps. only forgot 1 word but the meaning is really different lol

      • BLI

        I second the wish for a small/light system, including lenses. However, I think Pekka Potka mentioned in his review of the 75mm/1.8 that this was the first lens (?) that was “better than the sensor”. Thus, as I understand it: you need the 75mm/1.8 to actually be able to get better pictures with an improved sensor. My impression from his review was that for all other m43 lenses, it is the *lens* that is the limiting factor.

        For me, the E-M1 will only be of interest if it is small, i.e. only marginally larger than the E-M5. So far, I have not used the additional grips for the E-M5, and I am quite happy with the ergonomics (with my big hands).

        I may skip this generation and wait for the next (I will, of course, drool over both the GX-7 and the E-M1). Or a combination of things might tip me over and make me invest this fall. But not if the E-M1 is “big”.

      • Enzojz

        You have already so much choice I don’t understand why you talk about this, it’s just selfish.

    • Anonymous

      I agree. If you really need more IQ than 5DIII NOW, then m43 is not for you, as simple as that. But can someone give me some realistic scenarios for such an IQ please? (Apart from: “I am a paid PRO and I need to deliver the highest blah blah”)

      • digifan

        Well even the “I am a paid PRO and I need to deliver the highest blah blah” is wannabe talk.
        I AM a paid pro and m43 suits me and my customers just fine. Only in very special situations I need a different tool, 35mmFF or Medium Format, but in those situation I can rent or even borrow the needed equippement.

        It’s bullsh!t that a paid photographer always needs the latest and greatest. It wasn’t so in the past and it still ain’t today. One just needs the tool that deliverers the desired/demanded result.

        • Oilymouse

          Oh dear, more actual experience beating down on the forum warriors! I like how this thread is kept clean very effectively :-)

          Pros I know typically get all teary-eyed when they show their beaten cameras that they worked with so intensively for years. I guess they’d rent a Phase One back for the occassions they need heavy pixel lifting.

          In sum: it’s all blah blah. Sony and Nikon seem to really understand megapixel lovers (they also understand it’s mostly a marketing race).

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/joefotosiamo/ Joe Gunawan Fotosiamo

        I actually am a paid PRO and I do shoot with micro 4/3 (GH3). In the blue moon where IQ is super important, I actually rent out a Phase One or Hasselblad instead. I rarely shoot high ISO or super shallow DOF, so the move to FF is not that interesting to me, at least unless the Sony FF mirrorless prove to be amazing =)

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/joefotosiamo/ Joe Gunawan Fotosiamo

        I actually am a paid PRO and I do shoot with micro 4/3 (GH3). In the blue moon where IQ is super important, I actually rent out a Phase One or Hasselblad instead. I rarely shoot high ISO or super shallow DOF, so the move to FF is not that interesting to me, at least unless the Sony FF mirrorless prove to be amazing =)

        My fashion and commercial work:
        http://www.fotosiamo.com

        • JimD

          Nice work Joe

          • http://www.gearstylequarterly.com mahmoud El-Darwish

            I agree on super shallow DOF. It’s a huge turnoff for me using FF for Video. BUT I have the same problem with M43. Too MUCH DOF to create narrative selective focus. Thus…
            I am a Super35/DX/APS-C advocate. But where are the affordable camera in those sensors? Panasonic/Sony/Olympus are missing this one IMHO. But someone will figure that out- Blackmagic maybe ?

        • EricS

          I don’t really have anything to comment on the subject but those photos are pretty amazing. Good work. :)

  • Jason

    Is the Phase Detection going to be a revolution like they are saying the Canon 70D will be?

    Any chance of a live colour histogram?

  • YeahYeah

    Olympus seriously went nuts with their pricetags. It should be no more than 1k€.

    • Oilymouse

      The market is always right. Anyway, €1000 for “high-end model” would be silly. So, instead of whining about the price, you’d better explain what currently missing/unknown features are crucial for a high-end model costing €1500 (as it easily should). You may leave the megapixels at the door.

      • Anonymoose

        Size, and therefore buttons.

        • Oilymouse

          Holding it and shooting it will make that clear.

    • Berneck

      The E-M5 is the first 43rds camera I purchased that doesn’t make me feel like I need the next iteration. If I feel like I want to “upgrade” in the future, I would just buy the “older” model after the price drops when a newer version is released. Now that I have the E-M5 I’ll never buy another camera when it’s first released. Price won’t be as much of an issue anymore.

      • Mr.Chainsaw

        Thats basically the same i feel about this.

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/rpesik/ Rocky Pesik

        Me too. With the current E-M5, I feel I can live at least another 2-3 years with the same camera.

  • amalric

    I think we are nearing the end of gearheadedness. At this point nobody will notice the difference in IQ, and instead everybody will notice a big difference in the purse.

    I predict a long and victorious marketing campaign, like Napoleon’s invasion of Russia :)

    • Anonymous

      And in the end, what happened to him? I hope that m43 keeps trying to improve on image quality or its fate will likely follow Napoleon’s.

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

      the invasion went off perfectly
      it was leaving that was screwed up

    • mattphoto

      That’s a good point. Coming from the E5… it will be an upgraded sensor for me anyways. but all the other manufacturers are cranking out new sensors on their high ends models. Yes, we can settle, but why? When the world around us is evolving, yes we can be happy stuck behind, but… it’s our money… it’s a shame we can’t get the best for it.

      Also as much weight as “Modified” and “tweaked” Sensor int he Oly community, it rarely means any noticeable improvements. That’s the sad fact: it’s simply the same sensor. How many other manufacturers pull this shit on their flagship pro models?

    • Macintosh Sauce

      You carry a purse? ROTFLMAO

  • Yun

    No AA filters , sounds great .
    Same as GX7 .
    Means IQ between GX7 & HighEnd OMD should around the same , unlike GX1 & OMD with 30% better IQ goes to EM5 .

    • The Real Stig

      You are letting your desire for the GX7 get in the way of reality.

      From a few articles back, Deep Throat – aka O, said this:

      “IQ is way better than E-M5 and E-P5.

      PDAF on sensor with 4/3 lenses works like a treat.

      It will be a dream camera for many.”

      Which means if you can afford the OM-D Pro and want the best IQ on offer in M4/3, you would be foolish to grab the GX7.

      Since O also said the kit lens would be of high optical quality, that means it is a new lens and will almost certainly be the 14-40mm f2.8 fixed aperture talked about. Add to all that the improved 5 axis IBIS from the EP5, inbuilt VF4 or better, 1/8000 robust shutter (Olympus have stated that for a camera to be considered pro, the shutter must be rated for high cycle count), probably WiFi and some other tweaks and presumably weatherproof and pro build quality, you have an absolutely compelling package.

      If Olympus have also improved their video codecs and options, that would just make it epic.

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/sneye/ sneye

        I have no doubt this camera will be superior to the GX7 in many ways, but it will also be bigger and dearer. Different classes.
        The GX7 is strong competition to the E-M5.

        • The Real Stig

          Well the GX7 is already bigger than the EM-5 in width, depth and weight.

          I doubt it will be much bigger, aside from the grip. It has already been mentioned the body style will be like the OMD. That could mean the same shape overall but bigger or it could mean the same size but with an bigger built in grip. I suspect the latter.

          If it had an all-aspect screen, then that would make it a bit deeper.

          • andrew

            Yes, the GX7 is a little bit bigger than the OMD, but not by much.
            The two cameras side by side they look about the same size.

        • The Real Stig

          I agree with you about the cost and class and it not competing with the GX7 – Olympus are creating a new Pro category within M4/3.

          I have a sneaking suspicion the performance of the whole package, particularly with the kit lens, will rock a few people back on their heels.

          The EM-5 has already caused significant defections from APS-C, I think this thing will cause a minor stampede.

          • Ross

            Which means I’ll probably be drooling & wishing I could afford to get this one. Ah well, maybe I should just go & take some photos with my E-M5. 😉

            I am hoping a faster (brighter) zoom can be added to my kit though.

          • JimD

            The OM-D was introduced as a line of cameras with the e-m5 being the first. The name of the e-m5 is precisely that, e-m5 and not OM-D. This was made clear at the time of introduction. It was also made clear the e-m5 was NOT a pro level camera and that would follow later as part of the OM-D series.
            It is just a continuation of the OM-D line as envisaged at the time the e-m5 was released.

      • TZ

        This.

        My “Little Tuna” can not wait to challenge freeskiers and BASE jumpers in the most harsh environmental conditions.

        Bring it on Oly! Period.

        tz

  • Thing Mein

    If the PDAF works as well as it does with Nikon 1, it will be well worth $1500. The E-P5 + VF4 is almost that much and that’s clearly an inferior combination.

  • Erics

    I love my EM5 but I’m somehow surprised if there wont be some kind of update in image quality to a sensor that is two years old. As good as EM5 is I would love to have slightly better ISO performance and a couple of extra megapixels for making big prints especially if you have to crop the picture.

    • digifan

      I think you live in a different dimension. In mine, the E-M5 is just ONE year and a few month’s old!!!!

      • digifan

        @Erics, If you need the possibility to crop that much, you should learn how to frame!!
        I crop my pictures seldomly. It isn’t that I snap away and later see that a different fov would have been better. If you need to crop that extensively that you can’t maintain 80% of they original than you are doing something very wrong.
        Better you buy the highest megapixel camera you can get, but I have a hunch that even THAT wouldn’t be enough.

        • Mr. Reeee

          +1000!

        • BLI

          Not always easy to get close enough if you want to take pictures of e.g. eagles, where there is no high quality tele lens/zoom. For such pictures, good tracking AF + a good tele lens is necessary. I saw some very nice pictures taken with an E-M5 and an Canon 800 mm/5.6 lens ca. April 2012. I don’t say that Olympus should produce an 800 mm, but a good 4-500 mm with a teleconverter may be useful for some users.

          • EricS

            Thanks for saying what I was just about to put into words. Sometimes its not simply possible to get close enough or to use lens that would have enough reach. When cropping it would be nice to maintain at least 4k resolution and 16 megapixel sensor doesn’t leave you much to work with.

        • JimD

          Nice to say. But reality does not work that way very often. Especially when the wife is in a hurry and it is all one can do not to get her rear end in every shot. So cropping is often a fact of life.

    • chronocommando

      get closer 😉

      • Anonymousse

        Getting closer generally changes the perspective. And sometimes, getting closer can mean falling off a cliff, getting hit by traffic or falling into the water.

        • Anonymous

          …or getting a better photo. It’s not original…Capra said it.

        • Pharque Moi

          Are u chasing the royals?

  • http://www.trimar.ch Duque

    @Admin
    Did your sources mention, if the sensor could be a BSI Design.
    If it is a BSI Sensor then it is a greatbthing and indon’t mind the 16MP

    • white_cat

      That would be the Exmor technology from Sony: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/exmor_r_01.html

      As far as I can see it is targeted at mobile phones, although would be delighted to see it implemented on an MFT camera!

      • http://www.trimar.ch Duque

        But that technalready made it intomthe RX100Mk2
        So it should be only a matter of time until it should make it into Sony’s APS-C Sensors. Hopefully also into m4/3.

        • peevee

          This technology does not make much sense on large sensors, it barely improves even RX100Mk2 with pixels about 2.5 times smaller. It means than on 16 mpix m43 sensors, if it is made on the same tech node, electronics takes 2.5 smaller percentage.

        • Surab

          Sony claims that BSI is not of huge benefit for larger sensors and that the RX100MKII is there 1st “larger” BSI sensor. Maybe they have a trick up their sleeve, but on the 1″ sensor the difference was short of 1 stop in noise. So if we double the sensor area to m43 but the gates stay almost the same than this would yield half a stop.

          But this is just my uneducated gues and approxiamtion… :S

          • JBL

            Sony had Exmor that it’s advance photosite material but Fuji X-Trans is advance color filter ,
            i disagree if sony send new Exmor HD to olympus while New SLT and NEX still disappear .

            panasonic strict on FSI sensor they build Smart FSI had bigger photosite and microlens that may in GX7 sensor
            Sony still develop sensor on BSI tech that called Exmor, the others toshiba,samsung and Aptina they had shared patents to sony,CMOSIS had global shutter sensor it’s best for video record

            who is the best ?

  • http://www.43rumors.com/members/miroslav/ Miroslav

    Removing AA filter seems popular with manufacturers these days. Cheap, slight increase in sharpness, but powerful marketing tool.

    • Oilymouse

      We owe a lot to the pixel peepers.

  • white_cat

    Exciting that we can comfortably bring the pro 4/3 lenses into play on a pro level body.

    Good work Olympus!

  • Bojan

    1500€???
    WTF?
    Seriously!!!
    I’m going back to dslr.

    • white_cat

      McLaren F1 – $2,000,000

      I’m going back to bicycles

      Or maybe I could use my brain and just buy a car I can afford…

      • Mr. Reeee

        Or walk… 😉

      • JimD

        At least put the shopping into, with out having to return several times to get it all.

    • Anonymous

      Perhaps this is just not the camera for you… there’s plenty of other options!

    • Anonymous

      Bu buy! Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

    • keep calm

      no one forces you to buy one at release. Just relax and wait 1 year and the price will be OK. till then enjoy your mft system! ;))

    • Ross

      If it is for Pro use, then expect a Pro price. It obviously isn’t what you need (or can afford).

  • Deaner

    Olympus you need to get this right. $1500 is too much money. Maybe some ‘pro’ photographers will not mind paying but if you want to ship any volume drop the price. the e5 was ~$1600 at launch. This will new OMD will be a much simpler camera to build. why? no mirror pentaprism separate AF sensor etc. Further more i do not believe that the OMD sensor is expensive to produce, 18mo. old design, 50% size of APSC or 25% of FF.
    If this is not the case why do we see camera bodies selling for 50% of MSRP within a months of launch.
    I understand there are camera makers that live on the periphery with wild margins (Leica, Hasselblad) but Olympus shouldn’t be one of them.

    • white_cat

      It is a good thing that Olympus are building a pro level body where price is not the primary objective, there are people who will appreciate this product and will be willing to pay a premium for it.

      Look of it is not for you, buy one of the myriad other options on the market.

      To sketch a car analogy: personally I didn’t think an Audi A4 was good vale for money, so I bought a VW Golf. I don’t bemoan the fact that the A4 exists or what it costs…it just isn’t value for my specific needs.

      • Billy

        A VW golf will take you anywhere a A4 will, carrying the same people and cargo, with roughly the same gas consumption, confort, etc. Basically you’re getting almost the same while saving a lot just for a brand thing.

        Not the case here, Olympus wants 1500€ for a camera that has features that should be included months ago on even more basic cameras, like PDAF or peaking, without having to pay an absurd amount of money for.
        Cameras like the Nikon D7100 or canon 70d costs less, have far more lens choices and I’m betting still AFs faster and better on moving subjects.
        And the 70d even has on sensor PDAF too.

        So what is that so valuable about the OM-D (or any other olympus product for that matter)…size?!? I like small cameras too but paying a lot more just for that alone with all the shortcomings is stupid.

        • white_cat

          The point is that the extra features have a cost, premium features are by their nature sold to fewer people, therefore the development costs must be spread thick leading to higher per unit costs.

          Camera’s are not sold in the millions like smart phones and tablets, the r&d costs are not a tiny fraction of each unit but in fact a significant portion.

          It has always been the case that newer technologies start their life in premium products, premium products have a premium cost. This is the economic reality, accept it or just get high :)

        • Curzon

          And still Audi (luxury division of VW) sells a lot of cars: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/audi-sales-idUSL6N0FU37020130724

          You ask “why ppl would pay 1500 for features they can have in another cam for less?”. A possible answer is “because it’s an Olympus and they think it’s worth the price”.

          A camera that price isn’t everybody’s cam. I know it won’t be mine (don’t wanna spend that much, and I couldn’t afford the lenses needed to get the best out of it anyway), but if there’s a market for it why not?

      • Deaner

        I agree it probably will not meet my needs (as i am a happy em5 user) so I will not be buying it. However, to extend your analogy it seems that Olympus wants to charge A4 money for a new Golf (i.e. a newer more simplified mechanical machine). It is their prerogative.

        I do not bemoan the existence of expensive products, but I would like to see Olympus thrive (as i have an investment in their equipment) i am an unsure if this is a smart move on their part.

      • http://www.flickr.com/photos/33496987@N08/ Ulli

        yes, its like men wanting the most pretty and warm hearted girl, without thinking they actually just can be happy as well with a girl-next door type.

        • Anonymous

          YEah -my girlfriend is kinda ugly in a way, but she makes me happy.

        • BLI

          Just like John Nash’s illustration of his ideas (A beautiful mind): let the other guys fight for the most beautiful girl in the room, and instead concentrate on the second most beautiful :-)

    • Martin

      “50% size of APSC or 25% of FF.”

      When posting in an M43 forum, you should at least get the math right. The 43 format has 67% of the APS-C area. The factor between APS-C and 24*36mm, on the other hand, is not just two, which would correspond to a crop factor of 1.4 instead of 1.6. APS-C has only 39% of the area of 24*36mm.

      • Deaner

        Nikon DX 24mm x 16mm = 384mm2
        m43 17.3mm x 13mm = 224mm2 (imaging area)
        224/384 = 58%
        Lets split the difference and realize its all pretty much the same.

    • CaverDave

      If it is a true pro-level camera then at $1,500 it will be the lowest price one at introduction. We just have to see if the camera performs like a pro camera. If it is the top model of a three model OMD camera line then expect the mid and low models next year that will have lower prices. Not every camera model is for everyone.

      • jan

        I agree! And we shouldn´t forget that the E-M5 was (and still is) a high priced camera. I bought it for 1100 Euro and the E-M5 was never ment to be a pro-model. So why should Olympus sell a pro-model for less? What Canikon does doesn´t have to be the benchmark for Olympus since the E-M5 was/is pricy and still selling well.
        So what?

    • OM-4ever

      $1500 is completely reasonable for a pro model in m4/3. This is the new flagship and must be judged on the sum of its parts. To be able to take stock of such a camera requires at minimum, an understanding of the practice, if not the ability, of the pursuit on this advanced level. This is clearly lacking from many here, despite (misplaced) desire.

    • Oilymouse

      Bullocks. Your idea of relative sensor sizes is completely messed up. The R&D costs for pentaprisms and off-chip PDAF was already paid for during the last century. So while things may appear simpler to you, it’s all high tech, state-of-the-art stuff. How can you judge the efforts that went into this camera? Only Oly execs know that.

      Regardless, you effectively demonstrated how little you know of the photography industry while trying to lecture Olympus. Congratulations!

      • Deaner

        Of course I don’t know the internal financial consideration (some would argue neither do Olympus execs given their recent legal troubles). I would welcome clarification from any knowledgeable source. It is my understanding that Olympus has secured significant R&D benefit from its tie up with Sony. But I can state with certainty that the size of the sensor has significant impact on the cost of production.

        Please elucidate these things for me.

  • O

    Did I mentioned that the sensor will surprise many? It come with a new processor and can tackle many things and produce exception image quality.

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/sneye/ sneye

      Do you mean some sort of single-exposure HDR?

      • Torstein

        Is it possible to make a single exposure HDR?

        • Ross

          Yeah, it’s called Dramatic Tone Art Filter. 😉 😀

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/sneye/ sneye

          Theoretically it’s possible. One of the ways to do it is to read the sensor output twice, mid-exposure and post-exposure. Of course, it would require rather robust processing power.

          • Steve

            It’s not theoretical. Other cams have it. They take 3 exposures and merge them as one.

            • http://www.43rumors.com/members/sneye/ sneye

              That is multi-exposure HDR.

              • maybe wait for EM-6

                sorry.. that is correct.. but does the theory work ? when the shutter opens, the photosites pick up the incommiing light. the sensor cant pick up the whole dynamic range at once as the high end will burn out pixels if all the light is coming in (for a single exposure)… the sensor must then capture several differrent exposures and process them independently. your final image would be in effect, a SINGLE exposure although the camera must capture several exposures in order to produce the HDR. i doubt the camera can pull all that information from one exposure.. (yes, its a single push of the shutter.. but 3 captures are done).
                as a matter of fact, even with our amazing bodies,..even our eyes work like that…
                I read that our eyes cant process light in one blast either.. In order for our eyes to capture the full dynamic range of a scene, the eye captures multiple exposures… it is the brain then that merges all of these exposures (alot more than a camera’s 3,5 or 7 exposures) and produces what you see when you look at something…
                so if our eyes dont get HDR from one ‘exposue’, then i doubt any other camera will..

        • Kyle

          The definition of the term ‘exposure’ is changing, especially with mirrorless. The GX7 (like some other new cameras) has ‘silent’ electronic shutter only. So now you could do a ‘multi-exposure’ HDR without mirror or physical shutter actuation. I think the GX7 can shoot 40 FPS which means that you should technically be able to shoot 3 electronic exposure HDR images in very short sections of time.

        • Anonymousse

          Yes, of course, if the sensor’s dynamic range is high enough.

    • http://www.flickr.com/youdidntdidyou YouDidntDidYou

      @O
      I hope it can do custom gradient maps ie duotones :)

      • O

        That depends on how you would look at it.

        • Republic

          All I want to know is that the noise level in High ISO has been VASTLY improved. Can you say that or not ‘O’?

          • O

            Yes.

    • mattphoto

      Because as we all know, processing the f–k out of files is the best way to get better image quality.

      • C. C.

        Matt – Can you assign “f-k” to a function key? That would be awesome.

  • Mar

    I see this as an e5 replacement for people with 43 lenses.
    There won’t be too much difference for folks with omd to make it worthwhile.

    But if pdaf works great it could be great solution for 2in1 system capable of being light and small and top performer with best 43rds lenses.

    I predict prices for 43 glass will be going up 😀

    Has anyone compared new evf to vf2/omd one?

    • http://www.43rumors.com/members/sneye/ sneye

      I have both viewfinders. The VF-4 is much more convenient for manual focusing. Makes focus peaking / magnification unnecessary. For framing purposes, the VF-2 is good enough.

    • BLI

      If the rumor is correct that there will be an m43 zoom lens with fixed minimum aperture at 2.8, this will most likely make the 14-54 and the 12-60 less interesting, i.e. those will probably not increase in price.

      • jan

        You might be right but I think it depends on the price of the new f2,8-lenses (I was told by a salesman there will be 3 new zooms this year!!!). A high priced offer may increase the demand on FT-lenses. However, I still have FT-pro-Zooms (14-54II, 12-60, 50-200SWD) and am not willing to sell them yet…

  • Rchard

    If it has PDAF on the sensor it can hardly be the same sensor as the EM-5 or do you think they just had to superglue PDAF on it?

    • digifan

      +1, exactly. That’s what I said too. There’s extensive R&D needed to make sure the IQ doesn’t deteriorate else it’s a no go anyway. And in many cases on sensor PDAF negatively effected the IQ of the sensors output.
      So, IMO, if the E-M1 has same or even slightly better IQ than E-M5/E-P5 it’s a win!
      €1500 is a price I’m willing to pay for a m43 Pro-grade OGPS supported camera that even takes 43 lenses. If by any chance CAF with 43 lenses is better than on E-5 and if m43 lenses are even faster to respond and extreme sports is within it’s reach than it’s a total no brainer for ME.
      It’ll mean I’d have to rent a lot less 35mmFF equip., also a win, for ME.

  • matt jones

    Prices drop over time, I’m happy Olympus is focussing on other aspects of their cameras than megapixels. Can’t wait to see the new E-M1

  • http://www.43rumors.com/members/dcap/ dCap

    not one to resist technology … but they’ve got a real challenge on sensor performance – the EM5 sensor is plenty good enough and the high ISO numbers are getting silly, any improvements are minor. and now Pan have caught up with the GX7 they just need to put that sensor in their other cameras.

    I’d pay for an EM5 without video function if there is an ability to put a cheaper engine in that achieved the same stills performance

    video is for chumps

    • Lyden

      Wrong…video is an excellent creative medium and the camera should keep up with it’s leading peers in this regard.

      • http://www.43rumors.com/members/dcap/ dCap

        plenty of video capable cameras about – are the stills shooters paying an unwanted premium to subsidize the YouTube generation?

        • Lyden

          You’ve got to be out of your mind. So, Olympus should eliminate video in order to drive the cost down for still purists like you? The would would be a sound business decision and sure to increase sales and market penetration for Olympus!! Please.

          • Renato S.

            there are people like him all over photography forums, I heard one of them saying that Nikon should not bother video as well because it would end up being a tool that does so many things but badly. because yeah, you just add video and suddendly there are too many stuff going on in a camera and that makes sense(?). both Nikon and Olympus have the photography part figured out, by just partnering with someone or developing better video you can get more customers, why not invest on that? even more with a killing feat like the 5-axis IBIS!

        • Anonymous

          Here is a concept you seem unfamiliar with, its called economics of scale.

          • JimD

            That is why making every still camera into more then a casual video taker is silly and weighs the scales in the wrong place for most. If you want video buy a video camera.
            You don’t buy a car then expect to put 5 tons of bricks in the back. Not the same you say. Yes it is the car and the light truck both have 4 wheels and engines. So they do the same thing don’t they???

            • Ross

              Better tell this guy the bike wasn’t really meant to carry this. 😉 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_in6flQUl334/R1AQsSHeNcI/AAAAAAAAAAw/b_EL6AOpZQc/s320/funny_bike.jpg

              • JimD

                Great Ross. But lets face it its not a REAL bike its got 3 wheels. We must be purists. And I want one in silver with a bigger wheel diameter and electronic gears. Oh must be whitewall tyres. And, And, a full leather saddle.
                Oh! I forgot it must be alloy light weight and rust proof. With little dinky motor driving the front wheel. Real trendy. What! no motor! can’t be a bike then they all have motors nowadays.
                Bet they only make it in black with black tyres and 3 wheels with no gear change and plastic saddle.

  • Sapphire

    No big change on marked HIGH END OMD. If this rumors are 100% true, I think Olympus is walk back the old road like E3 to E5. Share will drop, market drop and lost a lot of loyalty user.

    • Ross

      Glass half empty for you instead of glass half full?

    • C. C.

      Did you forget to take your meds today? I think amalric may have some extra Thorazine. Check with him before posting next time.

  • ever hopeful

    Even on the Nikon D800E (no A filter), the reviews say that the differences are minimal compared to the D800 (with AA filter). If you need that level of detail, fine but then again, if you need that level of detail buy the D800E. Would I sell my EM-5 (second hand price £500?) and spend over £1,000 buying the new version? Nope.
    However, if the addition of PDASF gave gaood focus tracking it would be more attractive (but I guess still not as good as my 7D).

    • Ross

      A number of people use two bodies & this would compliment the E-M5 beautifully, especially for those that have worthwhile 4/3’s glass to use too.

    • Tropical Yeti

      There may be other reasons for omitting antialiasing filter.
      I can easily imagine that bluring the image with AA filter can obstruct functionality of PDAF pixels on sensor (presuming they use AF pixels, similar to Canon 70D camera, which detect light from left or right side).
      But I have no real info about that…

      • Ross

        That sounds logical anyhow.

  • Shenkie

    So no apsc size sensor…… Its doomed. Only fangirls are going to buy this.

    • Oilymouse

      Not even the fangirls. They weren’t as braindead as to expect a slightly wider sensor, so they already bought a D3200 with kit lens and went somewhere else.

    • The Real Stig

      Being so brain dead, why are you here? Do you know what an image circle is?

    • jan

      This definitely is the most stupid comment on this topic so far… But hey, someone´s got to do it…

  • http://www.albertoaguilar.es Alberto

    E-M5 sensor with tricks for 1500 euros?!!!

    great!

    keep on doing Olympus :Ñ

    • Oilymouse

      If you want sensors, you’re better off buying them wholesale. We’re discussing cameras here, silly!

      • http://www.albertoaguilar.es Alberto

        Silly mouse, go out and buy a camera wo sensor

        • Oilymouse

          That would be a film camera. I think we’re discussing the features and benefits of a new digital camera here. You at least got the sensor bit covered pretty well. Anything else to add, al?

          • http://www.albertoaguilar.es Alberto

            I like feed rats/trolls/oilymice, funny animals all of them

            nothing more 😉

            • Oilymouse

              That ain’t much, albertroll.

          • maybe wait for EM-6

            stop wasting your time talking about film cameras.. They’ll never sell.. Can you imagine waiting for 3 days to find out your picture is blurry ??? HA HA… film cameras… really…..

  • Biggstr

    Why the complaints on price for the superbly engineered top-of-the-line Olympus MFT cameras? Smaller and mirrorless do not necessarily mean cheaper. How about state-of-the-art and better engineered? I paid $600 for a Nikon professional film body in 1975 ($2,840 in today’s money), $1,995 for one of the first Nikon D100s ($2,630 in today’s money), $1,600 for a D200 ($1,980 in today’s money), and $750 for a D5200 ($800 in today’s money). Besides size and weight, I moved to Olympus MFT because I grew tired of the progressively cheap plastic feel of the newer model Nikon cameras and lenses. The Olympus PENs remind me of the incredible fit, finish, and engineering of the earlier Nikon cameras of the film era. Although dated with respect to sensor technology, whenever I hold one of my P2s in my hands I feel like I’m holding a classic Nikon or a “poor man’s Leica”. Given comparative capability, the prices we now pay for advanced digital sensors paired with the classic fit and finish of Olympus cameras make them a “steal”. Looking to buy a P5 kit this fall.

  • OM-4ever

    No deal, if the sensor is same old size. Switching back to SLR if it doesn’t increase it’s size at least halfway to an APS!

    • Ross

      Damn! I think it might be 4/3’s again! (sarcasm)

    • JimD

      An APSC sensor might fit but you would be limited to manual lenses for using the full image circle. The sigma 19 and 30 might be OK and also the oly 45mm but little else will fit in AF mode. using 4/3 or m43 glass would leave you with a mass of PP work, if it was without a switch.

  • Narretz

    OBS finally here! Raging crowds, standing ovations, tear-filled eyes, orgiastic chanting … oh wait, that was two years ago.

    • Oilymouse

      Don’t get carried away. OBS is just delivery on a promise made long ago. Somehow, I get the feeling it was never promised to you, so why waste time on OBS if there’s so much more in the world?

      You simply have to appreciate what is relevant and what obviously isn’t. If the camera is not for you (be it due to size, costs, video performance or whatever) that says something about, well, you. How relevant is that?

  • MiamiDallas

    Sounds like the only benefit is using 4/3 lens at a cost of $600 or more. Not a need for me i’m fine with my OMD EM5. If video features were improved I would have thought about purchasing, of course for a way lower asking price.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, the video capabilities are the big question mark; that’s where the movement is and Pany has discovered it with their GH series (not to mention Sony’s and Canon’s efforts, among others). Hopefully, Oly sees this (finally) and addresses it, or it’s going to be just another lackluster, ho-hum, evolutionary stills camera for those geezers who already have ten…

      Note: I am a “geezer,” but I can understand the need for 16:9…

      • Oilymouse

        Your product design philosophy in a nutshell: “be like the others”. Yawn.

        • Anonymous

          Total misread of my post. Don’t reply; end it here.

  • http://www.43rumors.com/members/dummy00001/ Dummy00001

    I have been told this is a great camera with one issue only that is shared with the E-P5. Price could be too high (around $1500 or 1500 Euro).

    And E-5.

    :(

  • Jankoff

    A new great camera? Great! But EPM2 is even a greater camera! It has 10% better ISO performance (DXoMark) than EM5 and costs three times less. Looking forward to the greatest Oly camera ever … :-)

  • Anonymoose

    So when is the E-7 coming out? This camera is too small for HG and SHG 4/3 lenses.

    • The Real Stig

      There will never be an E-7. This is it.

      With big glass, you support the lens in the palm of your left hand so balance is self-determining and the body size is irrelevant. An OM4-Ti stuck on the back of a Zuiko 250mm f2 is ‘unbalanced’ too

      • Anonymoose

        Yes. When shooting. And when not shooting? Take a photo, immediately place the camera back in the bag? Then take it out a minute later? And be sure to turn it off so the VF doesn’t activate and waste what is an already miserable battery life compared to pro bodies, anyway?

        This camera won’t work for 4/3 users, at all, unless they really want to bring their standard-grade 4/3 lenses back to life. A gripped E-M5 is barely usable with a 14-54 and entirely unusable with everything else above that (except for the 50mm, which is small and light).

  • wonder

    I wonder if it will have a better physical layout? The only thing I would like to have changed on my OMD is the flimsy small rubber buttons, and maybe a cleanup of the menu system. IQ and focusing is already good enough for me.

    • Ross

      They made the E-P5 a lot better than the E-P3 (as far as I can tell by looking at the pretty pictures), so I would think it won’t be the same as the E-M5. One hopes not anyhow (as nice as the E-M5 is), as there is still some room for improvement in layout of buttons etc. (especially the Play & Fn1 buttons).

  • Kyle

    Simply can’t afford the extra $400 to $500 over the GX7 for basically the same thing. Would rather put that money into a better lens.

  • Yun

    Still got time before the GX7 reach my hand .
    More specs about this OMD Pro please .
    I can make a U turn for this OMD if it really impress me .

    • JBL

      it will exciting ,i will seen first m4/3 pro-lvel camera(begin of GH(1) pany claimed it’s higher level is not mean PRO)
      i want to know ,feel different of between M4/3 cam and M4/3 pro-cam,

      * don’t forget GX7 it’s not last cam on this year,pro-level of Lumix will announce end of year(not sure,vdo or hybrid)

  • peevee

    Will it have anti-aliasing in JPEG engine? Do you need to shoot in, say, portrait to use it?

  • http://www.mirrorlessworld.com atlasman

    If this new flagship has video at 1080p 60fps, I’ll replace my E-M5.

    • Jon

      +1000

  • MarcoSartoriPhoto

    I’m sorry, but I won’t ever understand the complaints about poor video capabilities: if I were into video I would buy a video camera.
    I know it would be better to have a camera offering great still images and great videos, but I think it will always be a compromise.
    Some might say that it’s too expensive to have two cameras, one for photos and one for videos, but buying a camera every year is expensive too.

    • Anonymous

      Camcorders don’t have interchangable lenses and the camcorders that do have similar limitations to the camera counterpart. IBIS is magical for videos and it’s a shame Olympus’ codec blows (artifacts with medium amounts of movement like trees / water / sports). Amateur videographers love using ilc because of it’s ability to create dof (camcorders have smaller sensors). It’s common practice these days to shoot with a Panasonic GH series or Canon bodies for this reason. And for pros like wedding shooters it’s nice to sometimes grab video with the same gear to mix up content.

      Now with phase detection on sensor … There’s an opportunity to create a monster hybrid camera. Canon 70d is about to also release phase detection and video shooters believe it will revolutionize autofocus. Check this vid:

      https://vimeo.com/71287537

      IBIS + good video codec + properly implemented phase detection in video (you ‘should’ be able to film good amounts of movement with shallow dof) and m4/3 + 4/3 glass (magical 14-35 f2) then you have yourself a cult camera.

    • Valiant Thor

      Not me, I want it both ways. I put together hybrid packages (photos, video, and audio) for clients and it’s great to have a camera that does it all. This one looks great. I can use my complete collection of M4/3 lenses, and with the 5-axis stabilization and AA filter removal this should be one nice puppy. Shooting with this and the new Lumix 20mm 1.7 II lens would be a dream for me.

  • Beautemps

    “Along the new Processor this allows to achieve an improved image quality over the Olympus E-M5.”
    That means E-PM2 Quality, which has also less or no AA-Filter.

  • Anonymous

    Oly took a great idea and made the small OMD, with a add on grip for those that wanted it. What they screwed up on, was the strap lug placement. So, rather than abandon the great idea and go back to the poor idea of a built in grip, why the hell don’t they just move the strap lug up, so those of us that want a small M4/3 body without a grip, can have a small “hornless” body that doesn’t poke our hands? Why not make everyone happy and sell more bodies. Sort of like having chrome and black lenses. I mean isn’t the the basic idea in business, to sell stuff that people want?

  • amalric

    ‘Tax on Miniaturization’ has been called the difference in price we pay, compared to dSLR. I still think it’s too high.
    The other factor is Economies of Scale. Say, Canon outputs 10 million cameras a year, while Oly one million (possibly not the right figures), a factor of 10 anyway.

    So there is no way tof O&P to recoup R&D expenses the way Canon does. R&D is strategic for them to differentiate and bring success to the new technology. So it is indeed a ‘Tax on Miniaturization’

    The answer for the ordinary guy is to exercise patience, and do ‘lagging technology’ buys :)

    • Oilymouse

      Amalric the Wise has spoken (besides “The Wise”, other alter egos exist, of course)

  • THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY…

    “High End OMD uses a modified E-M5 sensor”

    TRANSLATION: Once again Olympus will run a sensor to the ground until people start complaining, because they are cheap and they know they can get away with ripping off their fan base, because they are blind by loyalty to a brand that is not loyal to them.

    This is now Camera number Four(?) that will use the same Sony sensor..

    HHAHAHA!!

    • Ross

      So you’re able to design them a new sensor for each year then & at the same price & without R&D cost for each new design? Get real!

      It is a new sensor. With PD-AF on it! The others don’t have that.

      • IT’S STILL THE SAME SENSOR

        Put anything in front of it, behind it, cover it with a new engine, it’s still the same sensor and Olympus is going back to the well yet again. I mean we know their track record when it comes to sensors.

        Oh, and overcharging for their product…

        • IT’S STILL THE SAME NONSENSE

          … by those who think camera is merely a sensor. In other words, measurebators without a clue about photography – breed created by the digital era.

          • Oilymouse

            Please, please STOP copying the style of all-caps: it makes it look like his delusions have evolved into a split personality.

        • Beautemps

          It is only the same resolution but a totaly new sensor!!!

          The interesting point is how they implemented PDAF Sensors. So be happy to have slightly improved image quality + PDAF.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

          yes still the same sensor

          it had to have new wiring to hook up the padAF
          it needs new software synthesis to operate it
          it has a new bayer layer for pdAF to work
          it needs interpolation to disguise the pixels lost to AF
          it needs redesigned amplification to better enable pdAF
          it gets better amplification to the imaging pixels by default
          it has no AA filter to reduce the filter stack height

          so it has higher resolution
          more advanced on chip circuitry
          lower noise capability and as a result
          wider dynamic range
          and oh yes, pdAF

          not bad for the same sensor …

          • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

            I might add, that ‘is if’ it is the same sensor
            there is talk that it isnt

            • Renato S.

              It’s just the same Sony did with their 16MP sensor – that also was used in Pnetax and Nikon cameras – they just made some pixels behave like PDAF, in theory there can be all those improvements you said but even with new engine and all, in practical matters, it’s basically the same thing. What better way to see it besides Sony’s own cameras? The last generation of them, Sony added the PDAF, just like Fuji did with the X100s, but if you compare to the “original” sensors, the difference is absolutely marginal. So I think it’s safe to say that it’s basically the same sensor, the PDAF were made for the 4/3 lenses and just few of the m4/3 might take advantage od the PDAF so, in the end, it’s basically the same as the E-M5.

              • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

                well opposed to what ‘you think’
                what Im hearing, not from one person but two,
                is that performance is significantly better
                and it isnt the same sensor

                Im happy to wait and see
                but if at the end of the day all thats the same is a piece of silicon with 16 mill holes in it, that isnt the same. And if performance actuals are improved, that doesnt come from the same sensor

                • Renato S.

                  Well, I’d be happy if you are right and there are so many improvements but the rumors are really telling otherwise. If there are so many improvements, it would really make sense to call this the camera people were expecting but I’ll wait and see.

    • Nsowon

      You need to find a new definition of funny.

      I’m happy with my OM-D and E-PL5 as a backup/second body/walk-around. Nice upgrade to my E-400 and no complaints; although it took them a while to offer a camera body I wanted; but then so did everyone else or I’d have purchased earlier. I bought the E-400 on size, and the switch to m.4/3 was based on the same price/performance/size ratio.

      There are many, many happy Olympus owners out there. I don’t think many give a hoot about new bodies; more often lenses. I would gather that most are happy taking pictures and not actually craving the next best body. Of course, there are people who change their cameras as fast as they change their phones in the search for the latest ‘must have’. My phone is currently three years old and still ‘smart’ enough to do everything one could want a phone to do. I’m a happy Olympus user, with a Panasonic prime and my eye on another Panny lens. Loyal? A company only gets my money when they produce a product I want or need. Usually want. :-)

    • Oilymouse

      All-caps is back! Three cheers everybody!

    • EL Aura

      And for how many camera models did Panasonic milk the 12 MP sensor?
      Seven models (G1, G2, G10, GF1, GF2, GF3, GF5).

      Compare that with Olympus: Also seven models, if we discount the only very slightly different E-PL1s (E-P1, E-P2, E-PL1, E-PL2, E-P3, E-PL3, E-PM1).

      • Renato S.

        Yeah, but there is a big difference, at the time, in that list, Olympus has 3 of their top of the line cameras from the E-P line up, whereas Panasonic used a different sensor to differentiate their top of the line GH line up and I think that’s what’s bothering people. I’m also wondering what exactly will differentiate ths new OM-D from the E-M5, it’s only natural to expect a new sensor for a top of the line camera, one that is supposedly to be “PRO” and the replacement of the E-5, one that is above the E-M5. I will never dismiss a camera based just on early rumors but I think it’s normal to questioning, trying to understand what exactly will make the E-M1 so apart from the E-M5.

        • Renato S.

          and even the G3 didn’t use that same 12MP sensor

          • EL Aura

            I didn’t list the G3 as one of the cameras using a 12 MP sensor.

            I think the proper way to see this is that Olympus did not have a proper top-of-the-line camera until the OM-D E-M5. They certainly didn’t have an EVF camera.

  • http://kenthomas.us Ken Thomas

    Has anyone heard if this thing is going to be armored and weatherproofed?

    If I’m expected to retire my E-5 for this camera, that’s a VERY big deal.

    • jan

      It definitely will be – everything else won´t make sense since the “non-pro” E-M5 is weathersealed too.
      No worries on that!

  • http://www.gearstylequarterly.com mahmoud El-Darwish

    1) You ought not to assume all your readers are conversant with the technospeak.If you do not parenthesis acronyms and abbreviations, you out to provide embedded links out to a glossary. What is “PDAF”
    2) Is this yet another DSLM form factor geared to travel photographers? Then it’s not any kind of revolution at all but rather, yet another iteration in a long parade of ‘beta’ cameras disguised as finished products.

    • EL Aura

      (1) Almost every second article or post about autofocus in mirrorless cameras in the last year or so had the term PDAF in it.
      (2) Where do you draw the line, is using the term ‘DSLR’ ok?
      (3) I don’t know whether that was intended but there is some irony that after complaining about the admin using an abbreviation that is a bit less well known, you yourself use an abbreviation, DSLM, that not everybody might know.
      (4) Even though I couldn’t initially remember what the S in DSLM stood for, it was immediately clear from the context what the abbreviation represented. The same applies to PDAF, if compatibility with 4/3 lenses is a big feature, there is only one thing PDAF can stand for.

      (And while SLR differentiates from TLR, SLM does not differentiate from TLM because I know of no TLM.)

  • ANOTHER THING..

    If the GX7 was to have a GH2 or even the GH3 sensor, it would’ve be ripped to shreds here..

    However, No REAL complaints on a sensor they used a few times already??

    Wow… Biased, much?

    What a joke of a forum…

    • Ross

      What a joke of a poster!

      • jan

        +1000!
        Mr. Capital letter won´t stop haunting. I´m freezing 😉

    • Oilymouse

      Great sensors don’t die, they just get tweaked!

      And continue to bring great joy to Oly fanboys! And anguish to others. Oh well. Thanks for coming back again and again, all-caps.

  • ATTN idiots

    Will all those who don’t have or want 4/3 lenses please move on. This is one of the dozens of cameras that are NOT intended for you. Just as E-510, E-620 and E-5 addressed different audiences with different needs, so does this release vs EM5. You have no more business whining about its price than E-620 users did about E-5’s.

    • Oilymouse

      For the moment, this sounds reasonable.

      However, imagine the new body will also be valueable for m43 kiddies that would never consider such huuuge F/T lenses? Things like great finish, nice video, long battery life, brilliant C-AF. That’s why it’s so busy here.

      • ATTN idiots

        They’ll get their EM5 upgrade when time comes, simple as that. Not everyone needs top of the line camera. Not every camera has to satisfy every level of needs. This one has its intended audience, and those “m43 kiddies” are not it.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

          they should be faster focussing with m43rds lenses too
          ultimately hybrid pdAF and linear drive lenses should surpass even SLR systems for focussing speed. Although I think as it stands Im about the only guy who says so. So you heard it here first!

          • amalric

            Not so. I was saying the other day. And the proof is that they are offering a new zoom, which will show the new level of performance.

            Camera should have better CAF *and* better tracking.

            Linear motors should also show how far behind 4/3 lenses are. So people will be able to make up their minds.

  • Damn Oly

    I was at BH Photo few day ago, chat with a friends , and one of them told me; The new OMD camera will be much expensive than the UPCOMING Sony FF mirroless camera,.,.well i guess the rumor about the price is really true,..we’ll see

    • jan

      Really?? Than the FF-Sony could be a breakthrough for FF. IF they will sell appropriate lenses…
      However, Olympus already has the lenses (there are no real equivalents for the 50-200 or the 12-60 in the FF-world), so a body to handle them makes sense!
      By the way: A Leica M-Body is much, much more expensive than all the FF Canikons. It sells well ´cause of the lenses to adapt. It´s the lenses!!

      • Anonymous

        Actually, the Canon 100-400L (f/4-5.6) is a pretty good ‘full frame’ alternative for the 4/3 50-200, covering the same range for fov and giving a bit more dof control.

        • http://www.43rumors.com/members/carlos/ Riley

          its a 1987 film lens that focusses too slow
          and wont take a 2x for FF b/se it exceeds f/8 AF limit
          or 1.4x for APSC b/se it exceeds f/5.6 AF limit
          its one lens that Canon need to update

    • MarcoSartoriPhoto

      Nex FF was rumored to be 3000$€. If it will be 1500€$ and rumored specs will be confirmed I’ll get one immediatly.

      • Damn Oly

        its either,.the Sony FF mirroless camera will be A KILLER CHEAP PRICE or The New OM-D will be the HELL OUT Expensive ,.,.i was asked the guy many times,.He confirmed me ,.that the Sony FF would less money than the New OM-D

        • Damn Oly

          anyway,.I just hope the price of the New OM-D is not true,.and as I hoping more the rumor about the FF Sony price would be true

          next week I will go again to BH photo,.and ask the guy again

    • Oilymouse

      Broken record. You said that before. It’s just speculation. Please shut up until you have something concrete to report.

  • Swallow D0F

    E-pm2 has aa filter confirmed by Olympus. There is no significant iq difference between e-pm2 and e-m5, same sensor same aa filter. The different scores in dxo are way too small to talk about better iq.

    • Oilymouse

      The scores are different. If dxo thought that was irrelevant, they would have changed the granularity, i.e. all scores divided by 5 or 10.

      For human perception, one does not need dxo, of course. 99.99% of people talking about sensor scores in controlled environments would not be able to tell similar cameras apart in real life. Many interesting tests have proven that in my view.

      So yes, all recent Oly cameras have roughly the same IQ, including this one.

  • Anonymous

    Do we even have confirmation that the GX7 has no AA filter? I take this rumor with a very large grain of salt.

  • Renato S.

    I’m not the type that has unreal expectations in general, but for this camera I expected a new sensor. It’s supposed to be the PRO” camera people have been waiting for and as such, I expected more than a tweaked no AA filter sensor with PDAF. I’ll wait until the final specs but in many ways, for this price, a lot of people will be better off with a E-M5.

    I also thought that Panasonic would use a new multi-aspect sensor on the GH3, but it seems that they couldn’t finalise the new sensor on time – and it debuted now on the GX7 – but at least they came with a lot of new feats that created enough differentiation from their other cameras.

    If Olympus is shopping their 5-axis IBIS and if Panasonic can’t develop their own, I think Panasonic should just pay for it in their future GH camera. Fuji Rumors says that the organic sensor will debut in late 2014/early 2015, so this could be on time for a new GH camera.

    Can you imagine that? A GH5 with a new organic sensor, micro color splitter and 5-axis IBIS? I wish that Panasonic and Fuji could share more things, Panasonic could give a bit of their video quality and Fuji a bit of their “Fuji Color”. With Olympus teamming up with Sony, it seems reasonable to expect Panasonic and Fuji to do the same to stay competitive, right?

    • Anonymous

      “Pro camera”? The word “Pro” is so misused here. A camera body doesn’t make it a pro system. Can you walk into a photo rental shop and rent Oly or Pany lenses? That’s just one question. Do pros use the latest cameras? No, they spend their money on lenses and related hardware, such as lighting. If you are a journalist shooting in Afghanistan, can you assume you can borrow a lens from the other shooter at your side? Duh? Sometimes I think that folks here think being “pro” means having a weathersealed body.

      • MarcoSartoriPhoto

        Not all journalists go to warzones, or to harsh environments.

      • Renato S.

        But isn’t the point of this camera the full compatibility with the old 4/3 lenses? And shouldn’t that mean by your own POV that this makes this a “PRO aimed” camera? What I’m questionin is that if the full compatibility is the only big feat on this camera and if that will be anough to people pay so much when they can get similar IQ with the E-M5.

        There are lots of concepts of what makes a “PRO” camera and I always use “” because of that. For me it’s not about weather sealed body, it’s about the camera is intended to be used, the construction and durability, the lifecycle, how many shots the shutter can take, etc. it’s a camera that should be used for a long time nad I agree, it’s about the lens ecosystem – and that’s why Sony E-mount is lagging behind Fuji when it comes to PRO adoption, not everybody can buy a system to only work with adapters and legacy lenses.

        Olympus itself said that the E-M5 was not their “pro featured camera”, that they were yet to release a substitute for their E-5 and if this is really this one camera, I expected a better sensor OR some killing feats – that may still be revealed.

      • Love Bath

        Correct! You may not be able to borrow a lens in Afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter. If you’re a pro you’ll be smart enough to be self sufficient because you can’t assume where you’ll be shooting you’ll have no support.
        Either way, Olympus has to start somewhere. You think Nikon or Canon just appeared? And just because the masses don’t use Olympus doesn’t mean it’s not a “pro” system? There are many articles or blogs now where “pro” shooters switched to m4/3 systems. A camera is a tool in which a photographer uses to present their work. And with more people using the m4/3 system, that just makes it easier for “pro’s” to get support, such as “borrowing a lens in Afghanistan!” It’s not gonna happen overnight but I believe they’re on their way and with features like a weather-seal body, that just makes it that much better for “pro’s” out in the field.

        • Oilymouse

          Indeed. Olympus is really making the effort, reaching out to as many photographers as possible with their products and technology. The real men and women that actually manage the design and delivery of all that deserve recognition.

    • Uth

      I’m waiting for the organic sensor too, but I don’t dare to think that Pansonic will combine “the organic sensor technology” with “the micro color splitter sensor technology” in the next GH series (Although I really want to see this thing).

      But who know… GX7 already has the tilt-able EVF and IBIS, so I think that Panasonic always listen to their customers and try their best to get the better products.

      • Renato S.

        Panasonic may listen but they also take quite a long time to make things happen – I’m saying that because my parameter for upgrades and customer feedback is Fuji and they’ve been doing this so fast! This GX7 is something people were expecting of the GX1 but in the end I think it worked well.

        They already said that the micro color splitter can be applied in any bayer sensor and also that they could combine both technologies. The micro color splitter was announced before the organic sensor with Fuji so I think it’s not unrealistic to expect them to make that killing combo.

        • Uth

          I think they can do it but I’m not sure they will do that in the next camera. sometimes marketing plan is difficult to understand (maybe only me hahaha)

          Anyway “two years” will go pretty quick, especially for the technology products.

  • feeble wallet

    if rumours correct , it is being announced similar time to ff nex, which has oly tech as well ,5 axis ibis, and probably a lot better video if oly’s recent cameras are anything to go by , olympus really should make full use of there video potential

  • forgotmyusername

    My 2 hopes are that:

    1. The EVF is far & away the best out there.
    I have a GH3, and want a vf that’s significantly larger, and easier to determine focus in from corner to corner. And if Oly is smart, for a “pro” camera, there should be a lot of control over that EVF incl how it gains up or not in various exposure modes.

    2. The video features are competitive with the best available. Incl better codecs, controls.

    & while I’m at it:

    3. (this one more wishful thinking) Fully articulated LCD w/touch screen focus like Pana -which is usable while viewing in the EVF, a Very valuable plus, but only workable if you can swing out the LCD to the side.

    4. (this one Really wishful thinking) better implementation of remote VF, compared to current wifi to ipad setups. The fact that the OMD already incorporates an external EFV port seems to point to Oly as the one who would most likely take the next logical step. I think at this point it would be reasonable to at best only expect a wired remote EVF capability, but that would still be great (and overdue, imo).
    In future years we’ll have perfect real-time smartphone/tablet monitoring & control of our camera during video, but until then…

  • Joonas

    Would it have clean HDMI out?

  • Love Bath

    I initially had a E-P1 in the beginning. I held off for a while upgrading, though I was nearly about to just get a E-P3 because of the better noise performance. Shortly after, the OMD came out and I couldn’t be happier and was glad I waited till then. This new OMD looks interesting. Awaiting more information!

  • Valiant Thor

    Nice! Got all my M4/3 lenses lined up and selling off some other bodies and getting ready for this baby.

  • JimD

    We have got to the time for sensor variations within each body shell style. Same components, bits and operation just optimised sensors for different usage.
    By that I mean a high ISO version with less pixels where the sensor is made and tuned for excellent high iso operation as well as daylight say 10 to 12 MB. The alternative sensor made for high resolution with high density of pixels tuned to maximise resolution in good lighting. Say 18-24MB.
    These options do not need to be available with all models, but must NOT be restricted to the top pro models.
    Maybe even a gizmo sensor of 20MB that with the flick of a switch becomes a 10MB sensor by coupling photo sites in pairs and reducing amplification and improving SNR dramatically! Try 24MB and link in 3s to make better balance and 8MB output.
    Ah well!

  • grant torres

    1500 price would put this model around the D400 and 7d2 price range. I dont think. . .

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