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One thing that comes to mind is some sort of hybrid contrast/phase focusing system…a bit complex to engineer, but would be simple for the end user. Even though I’m not a fan of mounting HG or SHG lenses on micro 4/3 bodies (with the 14-54 MkII being a notable exception), there are those who would love to see the 4/3 12-60mm work as well on their Pen as their DSLR.

If Olympus could pull that off, it would be a HUGE advantage for them over Panasonic, and just about everyone else. No one would even care about a built-in EVF at that point.

Olympius

Michel V
Use histogram

The big advantage to MFT is smaller lenses. Everything else is optional. If Oly built in everything I want in a camera, it would be the same size as a Nikon D3100. You have to cut size somewhere, or you will end up with a slightly inferior D3100.

Instead, Oly built the XZ1 and the EPLs to blow away the Nikon P300 and the Panny GF2, and they do so, depending on how much you want to carry around, and how much you are willing to fiddle with the focus.

If your marketing philosophy is “best IQ for the size and money”, then building in an EVF would be playing on someone else’s playing field.

> Always quick to criticize “Japanese” marketing mistakes. Still haven’t shown how your American Kodak, Polaroid, HP and GE camera corps are doing worth a darn.

There are no American camera companies for the most part. Kodak and HP are in the process of getting out of the business, Polaroid and GE are mostly just brand names, not engineering organizations. I suppose RED is an American camera company, but they now appear to be mostly targeting Hollywood, where the Buddy System marketing approach works fine.

> As for alphanumeric names, which cam company doesn’t do it?

Ah, the “they all do it” defense. Not really a defense. It’s a justification, at best. Marketing is partly about making your products stand out, so by doing the same thing everyone else does…

> Furthermore, ever heard of Lexus LS460? Audi A7? iPhone 4?

Don’t get me started on Lexus. I couldn’t tell you which product is which from it’s name. Is it a faux SUV, a car, a hybrid, low-end, high-end? Don’t know from the name (yes, I know that S is car and X is SUV, but I actually had to go doublecheck their Web site to make sure that this was correct, proving my point about confusion). The other two you mention use something that’s a little more consistent and easier for a customer to understand. Audi uses the number to tell you the class level of the product. Apple uses the number to tell you the generation of the product. Both things are slightly easier for a customer to come to grips with.

> Contrary to your belief, Olympus would not by just fine and dandy “if only the did things the TH way”.

I don’t believe I’ve ever said “do it my way and you’ll be fine and dandy.” I’ve simply pointed out the flaws in their existing marketing and the fact that they have all fallen into basically the same marketing traps. Moreover, things that I would have them do were I in charge of their marketing are not “the TH way,” they are the way I learned in MBA school and in working in the high-tech industry for nearly 30 years. They are the ways of others that I’ve learned work. I suspect you’ve worked zero days in marketing.

> If your talents are so great, why not use them to help the great American tax cheat ($14 billion in profits, $0 in taxes!) GE get their laughable mirrorless off the ground?

Well, here you prove that you’re not paying any attention at all. Perhaps you missed the “GE is a trademark of the General Electric Company and is used under license to: General Imaging Company.” It’s not actually GE that’s producing a camera. For some bizarre reason they licensed the GE trademark logo to a startup camera company. A startup that licenses hardware designs from yet another company.

> Olympus is doing just fine in comparison, with exciting products in the pipeline.

You make two contentions here:

1. Olympus is doing fine. Overall as a company, perhaps. But in the Imaging Division not by their own admission in their financial reports to shareholders and their interviews with Japanese business press. Imaging is the weak link in Olympus and has been for several years now, to the point where it is becoming a distraction.

2. Exciting products in the pipeline. Excellent. Care to share that information with the rest of us? Oh, right, you don’t have any such information, you’re guessing based upon reading some rumors here. But let’s give you the benefit of the doubt for a moment and assume that you’re, oh, say an Olympus employee with actual knowledge of upcoming products. If that were the case, you’ve just revealed that you know nothing about a competitor (GE), that you think that following the herd is okay, that the losses your division has been accruing are “fine”, and that your ability to carry on a debate without name calling, with clear arguments, and relevant factual information is nil. Which would make your assertion at the end also fall short.

The funny thing is that some people seem to think that criticism implies condemnation. It does not. Criticism can and should lead to better products. The E-P2, E-PL1, and E-PL2 were not in sum, better products. What I know about the one of the coming Pen models forces me to guess that it, too, is not a significantly better product. At what point do we just get disheartened and expect nothing better, just repackaged sameness?

Compared to E-620 and above 4/3 DSLRs all current m4/3 bodies are unergonomic fashion toys so for those not needing video there’s no reason to downgrade.
And very few of better 4/3 lenses have anything equal in m4/3.

on a side note, i find it interesting with all the talk about 4/3 being a dead system, that they are still selling out of SHG lenses at B&H, and that the SHG are getting re-stocked as well.

people are still buying the SHG lenses, and they are still being produced. if the system was so dead, why is this happening?

the E-5 must be popular, and was enough reassurance for people to buy SHG lenses…it was for me.

Unfixable highlights is not because of bad DR but because you OVEREXPOSED the scene. Use the live histogram to prevent this.

++++

The X100 is meant for an audience as thin as the DOF of an f1.0 lens. Very rare on all fronts.

My first real camera was a Konica II my dad got in Japan during the Korean War. The X100 looks kind of like it, except fort he built-in ligth meter. EVER so high-tech! As a collector’s item, it seems appealing.

This is usually a respectful and fun forum, time to curb this kind of attack nonsense, admin.

Sounds like you had an experience similar to mine.

Oh well, it gives us something to have a chuckle about.

Thom Hogan, self-appointed all-knowing marketing guru, God’s great superior American gift to the inferior-minded Japanese.
Always quick to criticize “Japanese” marketing mistakes. Still haven’t shown how your American Kodak, Polaroid, HP and GE camera corps are doing worth a darn.
As for alphanumeric names, which cam company doesn’t do it? Ok, there’s digital Rebel (in some countries), not that the buyers are rebelling against anything. Following the biggest herd is more like it. Even it has an alphanumeric name.
Furthermore, ever heard of Lexus LS460? Audi A7? iPhone 4?
Pen Dad? Speed doubler?(never heard of it before) – these sound chintzy and cheap. Wouldn’t buy them.
Contrary to your belief, Olympus would not by just fine and dandy “if only the did things the TH way”.
If your talents are so great, why not use them to help the great American tax cheat ($14 billion in profits, $0 in taxes!) GE get their laughable mirrorless off the ground?
Olympus is doing just fine in comparison, with exciting products in the pipeline.

MHHH :>

Well, well.

Just yesterday, everybody had a problem with me for praising the bigger sensor systems, because being frustrated with Oly’s approach. And today everybody is crying and swearing to leave m4/3 or Oly at least. :>

I have to say, that I still DO HOPE Oly can get back on track. Open their eyes and reenstate themselves among the legends and loved photographic products as they did so many times before. (I guess, EP1 was the last time, they made a big hit)

They are a company, who’s products have soul, and I would really be unhappy, if they would be bought up by Panasonic or someoene else BIG.

So, please, Oly. Read through the forums. See, what the people really want and produce it. The technology is allready long there. Just do it! And don’t sit on your bum creating a lousy stupid EPL3 or EP3 because the customers WANT SOMETHING GREAT! Not just so-so.

It would only work if the picture were approximately in focus. If the sensor can move a small distance back and forth then it could move to obtain optimum focus. So what you’d do is manually focus and when you are close to being in focus the system could lock on. If you are old enough to remember FM hi-fi tuners, they used to have a servo system like this for locking onto the station – it is quite a common engineering solution.

However it would work best with the 4/3 lenses. For them the main problem is that the motors are not responsive enough to do the necessary dance back and forth to focus fast by contrast. That is why the new m43 lenses have internal focussing with small mass units that can move rapidly. By moving the sensor instead to detect whether you want to focus in or out and to get the final lock you no longer have to have such a rapid response in the lens.

If they could make the sensor movement as much as 0.5 mm and you don’t need very close focus (closer than ~ 30cm) you could make wide angle lenses fixed (with no focussing mechanism at all) which would make them both smaller and cheaper to make. However I suspect that this might make the sensor unit too big.

Of course it may be that this is impractical for some reason. I was just interested to speculate what Admin thought was such a good idea, was not sure if it would work – but also thought was much better than a special adapter. Anyone else have any ideas?

> Fuji listened to customers and they launched what everybody was asking for (except for the interchangeble lenses).
They released a big sensor compact with a fixed focal length lens that looks like from the sixties. I strongly doubt that it’s something “everybody was asking for”.

>I do not understand why a company such Olympus does not listen to customers.
You mean.. listen to you?

If you’re Olympus, or Panasonic for that matter, you’re hopefully trying to build a SYSTEM with broad appeal. It’s not just one or two cameras of EXACTLY± the same style and nearly identical features. To sell your SYSTEM, you have bodies that appeal to different users and different uses.

Once you get a customer, you want to KEEP that customer and have them buy from you over and over and tell their friends and colleagues. Think how Apple stayed afloat for years!

If I’m a P&S upgrader with an EPL2, REALLY like it and want a more feature rich body, WITH a EVF and moveable LCD, what do I do? Stick with what I have, abandon M4/3 or buy a Panasonic. (or fantasize at rumor sites ) Oly loses.

On the flip side, let’s say I started out getting a GH2, but want a really small body I can put my 20mm on and discretely use at MOMA or a party. Let’s say Panasonic doesn’t have a tiny body like the GF3, but Oly does. What do I do? I buy the Olympus.

The other option is to call everyone with different tastes or desires names and pretend that real choice doesn’t and shouldn’t matter.

It’s all gear trolling until you come back from your vacation all the way accross the world to notice most of your pics with highlights are unfixable because of bad DR, and that some were wrongly focused because of the poor LCD.
Call it gear trolling, I call it being disappointed with Oly’s recent history of small iterations.

Hilarious!

Haha actually the final format of my photos is to sit on a computer hard drive in hopes that one day they will be valuable memories. Very few get posted on the Internet, fewer still get printed, and only a miniscule percent ever get put on a wall. But that begs the question, what is your final format? I assume that professionals who need to print their photos on movie posters or billboards, aren’t delaying jobs until they see what the new Pen pro has to offer. They are already well-covered by the top end Canikon gear and I think it would be unwise for Olympus to expend their already limited resourses to take on that upper tier. But what about the other 99% of people who take pictures?

I listed the advantages that I have found in owning m43, but those advantages aren’t worth it if it means poor image quality at the end of the day. My request was just for a demonstration of how much I am missing out on. I assume that you own a camera with a good sensor if you are able to judge who needs a good sensor and who doesn’t. Do you happen to have a link to a shot you took with a good sensor and the same shot taken with one like mine? I think it is a fair and openminded question. (A comparison featuring a camera priced similarily or at most double what my E-PL2 cost would be most useful as a $5000 body is out of my price range).

I am constantly in awe of the skill and eye that some phographers have, and I have been jealous of their exotic locations, or interesting subjects, or sense of timing in general – but I have never been stopped in my tracks by how much better someone’s image quality was…? People commenting on this site talk about Olympus’ crappy sensors like they are the difference between stadard TV and high definition. I want to see the difference, just show me where to look.

A typical day on this forum:

ADMIN: Olympus will release a PEN camera without EVF.

Poster #1: Olympus is dead. Bye bye Olympus.

Poster #2: Olympus never listens to their customers. All we want is a camera with 15-zone DR, ISO 25600 with no noise, 1″ thin pancake with f/0.95 and sell us under $500. I had enough, I am switching. (but never did switch)

Poster #3: That’s why I want to buy a Panny GH2. (except GH2 is always out of stock)

Poster #4: Learn how to shoot. 4/3 is good enough

Poster #5: @Poster #4. Only Olympus fan boi would buy 4/3. 4/3 gears are too expensive.

Poster #6: Olympus must learn how to differentiate their products.

Poster #7: @Admin. Don’t let Poster #6 post here. He is a business person, not a photographer.

Poster #8: Why can’t everyone get along!

What are you doing on this forum, writing intelligent comments all the time. You’ll get banned.

how could it allow fine focusing in legacy mf lens?

could you explain the idea

And the names aren’t searchable

Maybe “gear-o-holic” was a bit exagerated, I want an upgrade path, too! Not in a hurry, though: just bought a used E-30.

Let’s keep our fingers crossed that Oly can somehow merge the 2 systems! Maybe Maitani’s vision of a modular camera system will become reality? Imagine having both the advantages of an OVF/PDAF with FT lenses or a short flange distance (and the lenses possible, think Leica M) / compact size with MFT lenses.

Maybe the current situation is so frustrating because many can see the potential of the system(s) but nothing or very little of it has (yet) materialized?

What is the exciting new development Admin will not tell us. My hunch is a focussing sensor – ie sensor can move small amount in the axis of the lens and very fast. This would speed up AF and allow rapid AF on all 4/3 lenses. It would even allow fine focussing on legacy lenses.

This is something you can’t do on a mirrored system and so a revolution waiting to happen on mirrorless. Oly has the incentive to do this because of all the R & D investment that went into those 4/3 lenses.

I think the is not problem but, semi Pro 4/3 and semi Pro M4/3 side by side, so maybe Olympus come up by E-50 and Pen Pro and sam IQ in camera body.

Even after that survey on this forum of features uses want?! Olympus comes out and disappoints? Shocked!

Face it, this forum reflects a demographics that Olympus is no longer targeting. Even Leica diverts product shipment away from North America towards China. All the camera makers are focused more on China’s new crop of first time camera users. Thank goodness Fuji still cares for more experienced users.

sounds like some kind of exchange program?

OVF’s are dead.
small formats will never have it again. DSLR type cams are getting rid of it today.
Only ones who aren’t getting with the program is Canikon. They will be the last to get one, and it wont be because OVF is something market needs or wants, but because they are slow to adopt new tech, with main excuse that they want something proven.

I get it, but if you really want collapseable lenses, buy Olympus lenses.

There are differing opinions on IBIS vs. OIS.
There are advantages and disadvantages for both.

Then there’s the NO I.S. school of thought…
Learn to hold a goddamn camera!

Never bet anything based on rumors OR get disappointed when rumors don’t come true. It’s worth it.

ROTFL…. sony wil kick Olympus ASS with the next camera models.

the NEX system is so much better then this minor-upgrade-lets-cheat-the- customers olympus POS.

go and ask the pros who HAVE TO use the camera LCD if they would prefer to use a optical viewfinder instead…. if they could!!

look at the frankebuild constructions for the 5D MK2 to make it a decent video camera. with all the loupes and stuff they attach to the LCD.

in the studio i shoot thethered to my PC…. the LCD display is even more useless for me for studio shoots. live view is of course not useless there.

the iphone generation of photographer sure don´t need a viewfinder… but it´s 99% (with 1% exception) social illness they produce and not art.

C’mon, it’s not hate, but disappointment poorly stated.

I think all M4/3 users want to see the platform/system as strong as possible with dynamic, varied and complimentary equipment being released by ALL the M4/3 participants. Of course, not every product is great, not everyone will like every product, but anything that drives M4/3 forward is a good thing as far as I’m concerned!

Olympus seems to suffer from an inability to make strong moves after good first products and release incremental and marginal improvements. We’re seeing version 1.0, then 1.01, not 2.0 or even 1.5 releases. Even their loyal users don’t seem to be getting the improvements and new products they want.

Stuff is in the pipeline, we’re told; More and better lenses? Body with a built-in EVF? Fast focus and focus assist? Pivoting LCD? Interface improvements? Pro PEN? More “art” filters!

It wouldn’t kill Olympus to give users a clearer idea of what things may appear and when. Maybe if they sent a survey to currentbM4/3 users. I fear all they’ll do is lose sales and drag M4/3 down.

Of course a good sensor is not for you Fish, if the final format of your shots will be 860 wide lo-res direct from camera JPG´s on flickr you can live perfectly with 6Mpx superzoom camera without shutter lag.

We all think that our decisions are the best, if we all think that who is wrong?

Jumbo:

>that’s why you don’t see pros running around using live view on their cameras

Many pros that shoot things like sports use the optical viewfinder. However, anybody that shoots video pretty much needs to use the LCD (and often if the DSLR is in the rig to shoot video, they will do live view even if they are shooting stills at the moment). And I would imagine a lot of the product pros that shoot on a tripod in the studio use live view because the 10x zoom is very help to achieve exact focus. There are pros that use micro 4/3rds cameras, or Nex, or even point and shoots, and those all use live view all of the time.

There are many different types of people earning their income from photography. Not everybody is a photojournalist or shoots weddings. Everybody has different ways of shooting, and blanket statements are never true when you get down to specifics.

Hey admin, what happened to the comments? I think they used to run at 50 per page, now there seems to be 30, so a lot more paging.

Also, can you please do something about the comment spacing? People reply to the wrong comments all the time because there isn’t enough whitespace between comments.

There’s a school of thought that believes that model name confusion is good. The logic doesn’t seem right at first, but it’s based upon one of the things our brains do when confronted with too much information. Basically if a person walks into a shop not fully able to comprehend the differences in names, it’s easier to upsell them.

If you called the products Pen Soccer Mom, Pen College Student, and Pen Dad, you don’t sell a Pen Soccer Mom to a dad, nor a Pen Dad to a soccer mom. Simple as that. By obfuscating the names you force the potential buyer to ask questions, which is where the upsell notion comes from. Ironically, the more answers you give, the more confused and reluctant to purchase a buyer becomes as it turns out, which is why I don’t believe in this naming convention.

Those of you who remember the last time I had full control over things like naming at a tech company, it produced a string of hit products named RAM Doubler, Speed Doubler, Virtual PC, QuickCam, and VideoPhone. If you couldn’t figure out what the products might do for you from the name, you didn’t need them ;~).

So, with that in mind, the new low-end model being introduced would be easy to name: Pen Pocket. The problem is the other two models, which to date have completely overlapped and try to be all things to all people. One could imagine a Pen Pocket, Pen Enthusiast, and Pen Pro, for instance, but that’s not what Olympus seems to be producing. Indeed, that’s another problem with convoluted letter/number names: they don’t provide clear targets for designers to hit ;~).

So I’ll stand by my comment, it’s a classic marketing mistake. One committed by far too many companies.

The only true difference I can see is that with a built in EVF and IBIS some of us might have been more motivated to upgrade.

Like this I will be happy to go on with my PL1 and VF-2 instead. I might even get a G3, or wait for an X200.

At the 1000 mark price point, all I know is that I don’t want to waste the money for a camera that I won’t keep for a few years. By now I also have a nice range of legacy lenses, so with cheap Chinese adapters it has become very easy to jump ship without big financial loss.

Oly however should understand that nobody is going to buy the coming HG lenses, if it doesn’t offer a full monty body. That is why I am not losing hope.

Never mind the viewfinder. Just fix the noise, the DR and speedy AF in video.

here we go again. all this hate towards Oly is hilarious

let me clarify that the June 30 body (E-P3) doesnt mean this is all Oly has. Admin has repeated time and again that he has rumors of a Pro PEN in the pipeline. whether that gets announced this Sept, we have to wait and see.

but if you are really frustrated with Oly, then go buy your Sony and Samsung. i bet most people here wont miss you guys

It would just be nice not to have to attach the thing.

i can´t see a shit on my E-P2 LCD display on a sunny day.
so much about LCD displays.

Yeah, you can happily shoot with just 4 lenses

This rumored “semi-pro” Pen will have to compete against the G3. Olympus will be able to do that with their IBIS versus Panasonic’s built-in EVF. They would be more competitive if the new Pen also included an articulated screen. Each of the two cameras will have some advantages over the other.

But the real question will be how Olympus answers the challenge of the ever shrinking Sony NEX and Panasonic GF bodies. They’ll need to get close to those body sizes in order to compete. They already have the advantage of having a collapsible zoom (although who knows, Panasonic might follow their lead soon) and if Olympus can shrink the body substantially while maintaining IBIS, they’ll be very competitive.

no.. im not making jokes.

that´s why you don´t see pros running around using live view on their cameras.

a big viewfinder beats an LCD screen anytime!!
anyone serious with photography will agree to that (or at least 95%).

I hope you’re sarcastic about EVF making improvement for composition, framing and taking a interesting picture

Admin, can you give us a hint about the good news? It might help to soften the sting of the bad news.

Despite the dissapointment of not getting that show-stopper body that I have been expecting from Olympus for a long time, I can say is that my E-PL2 with it’s shockingly good 14-42mm mkII kit lens, is a superb camera for my style of shooting. I also use the 9-18mm wideangle, panasonic 20mm, and the FT 70-300mm lenses. I am constantly impressed by the IQ that this kit produces.

I often read hear about how different systems blow m4/3 out of the water but when I search different cameras on flickr, I cannot find anything to make me think that I am really missing out.

Are there any forum members who also have a D7000 or a K-5, or even a FF camera that can post some comparison shots taken of the same subject by their professional camera and their mft camera?

I am the sort of person who loves gear for its own sake and I would switch to another system if I felt that I was missing out. But on the other hand, I also love being able to get great looking jpegs without having to do a bunch of post processing. And I like the fact that my E-PL2 is small enough that I don’t look like the paparazzi when I am out with my family.

I posted some uncropped shots that I took with my E-PL2 on our last vacation, here: http://www.chadnheather.blogspot.com (but the pictures were resized for web viewing)
It is a personal blog but it shows some surfer and bird photos that I took with the 70-300mm lens (which performed much better than I was expecting).

I know that the bird photos could have been a lot better but I wonder if that’s not due to the budget lens rather than a weakness of the mft sensor ? I love the surfer photos but would they have turned out better with more dynamic range? (it looks like I have lost some highlights). The photo of my son’s sharktooth necklace was taken with the humble kit lens, handheld, as I sat next to him on the airplane. I didn’t make any adjustments to the colour but I think the colour and resolution are much better than any kit lens has a right to be! My sister’s Canon kit lens could not have taken this photo; in fact, I have seen the results of her 50mm 1.4 lens and I still wonder if it would have looked as good.

If there are comparison photos that demonstrate how mft is clearly inferior I would be very interested to see them. But I hope that the comments that have been posted about Olympus being dead are not true… because I think that their camera system is already excellent, nevermind whatever improvements the E-P3 might bring to the table. JMO

Chad

Dear God why is everybody so angry with Olympus? They will never be the big company you want it to become.
You want the latest and greatest in a small package? The electronic giants i.e. panasonic, samsung, sony will be a better choice for you.

fine, but Admin will it still have a dual processor? truPic V+ maybe

OVFs are great, but there’s no practical way to put a built in OVF on a non SLR interchangeable lens camera. That’s why Leicas can’t use very wide or very long lenses.

An EVF, on the other hand, can be very compact and lets you see exactly what the sensor sees.

ARGH!

fanboys will buy olympus no matter what.
you can sell them shit and they will praise the smell.

anyone with a common sense will buy a product that is better.

i will not mention brands here…..

Any hints please Admin?

Are you going to post something soon?

For me, it’s not about the VF. All I ever use is a swivel screen for waist-level shooting. The big question is whether they will finally make a high quality 12-xx zoom. If the glass is good the rest is more or less footnotes.

You’re discouraged by a rumour? Wait till the facts come before throwing in the towel. You might not be so disappointed when it is actually out & proven to be another winner even when the critics try to say the specs aren’t as good as the competition. The specs don’t look as good on paper for the E5 but the output image quality certainly excels in comparison to the opposition. Watch the Canon users run for cover when it rains, not the E5 users.

They want you to pay extra for the EVF. That’s why they keep it separate.

when I have the choice if I take the external EVF with me or not, there is a big chance to take the false decision… So if I want to be sure, I’ll take the VF-2 with me. And it that case I would prefer a build in VF.

Or Olympus, offer a detechable EVF which doesn’t block the hot shoe, which sits tight and safe, and which fits the retro design of the pen…

I would consider a semi-pro first of all has to have 2 control wheels which is what the E30 & E5 cameras have & the E-P2 had that so both aperture & shutter speed can be quickly adjusted (among other adjustments & quicker navigation of the menu settings etc). After that, other features desirable for semi-pro use would be added. A larger faster buffer is one thing & possibly with a faster sequence shutter & 1/8000 sec shutter speed. Quality might have a similar output to a lower model but usability will lend itself better to semi-pro use & with it being more rugged.

+1
Oly bet there still have consumers in two years, LoL
Who give a damn to so called SEMIPRO without build in EVF, come on Oly, die alone with Ep-2 ain’t nice at all.

eeeee, just ruined a good June.

Hear, hear – I do the same with my VF2! I love it when it’s manual focus time (or very bright out), but leave it behind when I don’t need it.

I have to think the crowd here who want something built-in is in a (clearly vocal) minority. I find the times when I really need the EVF to be much less frequent than I originally expected, and I really recommend that people don’t knock it ’till they try it.

To me, as somebody who enjoys the detachable EVF, the things that might determine whether I upgrade from the P2 to the P3 are autofocus performance, shutter speed, built-in flash (mainly as a wireless trigger), sensor improvements, ergonomics, and size (in roughly that order of priority).

I guess it depends on what market they are trying to support/grow. I agree with your thoughts that if there were an E-700 43 model that having an internal EVF in an E-P3 would make the E-700 redundant. However with this approach there is no EVF option in micro 43rds. As someone who wants an EVF but has no existing investment in the 43rds system why would I want to buy an E-700 and 43rds lenses etc when I know that all the future direction is pointing towards Micro43. If I am going to pay for lenses it may as well be M43 as I know that I also want one system with two body options – small without EVF, and larger with EVF. I could see alot of Micro43 owners ending up with two bodies.

So if Oly want to support 43rds then your thoughts are correct but if they want to grow Micro43 then the strategy you think they might have, would be the wrong move for Oly.

I think that they need an E-xx model to support the existing 4/3 users but need to replace the E-xxx model with a built-in EVF micro 4/3 model. Most consumers who bought the old E-xxx probably didnt buy more than a kit lens so moving them to micro 43rds wont be a big issue. So here’s my preferred product line-up (based on yours with some changes):
* XZ-2 — high-end compact, non-interchangeable lens
* E-PM3 — mini entry interchangeable lens -as small as possible
* E-PL3 — standard interchangeable lens mirrorless (tiltable LCD?)
* E-P3 — high-end mirrorless (with EVF and tiltable LCD)
* E-70 — semi-pro SLR-style OVF interchangeable lens
* E-7 — high-end SLR-style OVF interchangeable lens

You are right about the naming. Its pretty bad. I would make the E-P3 rangefinder style and then when they are ready to go more “Pro” they could come up with a M4/3 replacement for the E-70 model in DSLR body form with the ability to better focus 4/3 lenses as well as M4/3 lenses.

lenses and sensors are good enought today to make good to superb pictures.

the problem is the guy behind the camera who has no clue about composition, framing and taking a interesting picture!!

that´s why a good viewfinder is important!!

….”why are people so upset about evf? ovf is a lot better. i dont understand why people want builtin evf? if the pen3 has ovf and liveview”….

get a clue….. OVF on a pen……

why are people so upset about evf? ovf is a lot better. i dont understand why people want builtin evf? if the pen3 has ovf and liveview.

please no touchscreen on pro cam

There probably isn’t much they can do about the AF speed of FT lenses, short of releasing a new adapter that has a phase-detection sensor in it. Or some extremely brilliant AF algorithm that is capable of emulating phase-detection AF by telling the lens approximately where to focus on the first try instead of making many tiny adjustments…FT lenses aren’t good at making many tiny adjustments like mFT lenses are. But I think the adapter would be a much simpler problem to solve.

(If Olympus did release such an adapter, I’d be first in line to switch back to mFT…I’m sick of carrying my heavy Nikon gear around…)

Hi Thom

Thanks for the comments. Ok – similar in capability is a better description.

1. If someone is after a very small body then there will be the E-PM1? or whatever the Pen mini will be called. This will be a good model for P&S upgraders and as a second body for those into Micro43 who want the smallest for pocketability. makes good sense.

2. Then for someone who is after a slightly bigger model with no perceived performance difference (depending on sensor etc but assuming at some point there will be sensor parity) then there is the E-PL2. The controls are still mostly designed to cater for P&S upgraders.

3. Then there is the E-P2/3 for who exactly? As you say at the moment most people should go for the E-PL2 over the E-P2. And as you say unless there are some really good new features in the E-P3 then the product strategy doesnt make sense. At the moment the only benefit of an E-P2 over an E-PL2 is the rear upper control wheel and the slightly better finish/metal look. If the E-P3 is meant to be “semi-pro” for enthusiasts it needs to be marketed alot differently and IMHO should have a built-in EVF to meet the demand out there. Look at the interest in the Fuji X100.

If all three models end up with similar sensors and only slightly different controls (and sizes!) then there doesnt seem to be enough differentiation.

It is entirely possible that Olympus’ decision to do another E-xxx model made them decide to not include an internal EVF on a Pen. It could be that they see their model lineup this way:

* XZ-2 — high-end compact, non-interchangeable lens
* E-PL3 — entry interchangeable lens
* E-PL3 — standard interchangeable lens mirrorless
* E-P3 — high-end mirrorless
* E-700 — entry SLR-style (viewfinder) interchangeable lens
* E-7 — high-end SLR-style interchangeable lens

When you look at it that way, moving an internal EVF into the E-P3 makes the E-700 somewhat redundant. Basically an E-700 gains bulk with the primary gain being PD autofocus.

However, note to Olympus: if that’s the way you’re thinking, you need to fire all the marketing guys coming up with names. You’re making classic naming mistakes.

I agree with you, although it’s not totally unusable.

Not that I have any intention to buy a new camera right now – I am pretty sure my E-3 and E-620 will last for several years – and by that time I will probably acquire an used E-5. Nevertheless, I find Olys product policy outrageous. All PENs are basically the same – none of them is a worthy replacement for a DSLR regarding its usability (though the IQ is ok). Panasonic on the other hand offers various products, the more PEN-like GF, the intermediate G3 and the more DSLR-like GH-2. However, the things that Panasonic fails at are IBIS and good JPEGs. I fear that Olys managers have lost their marbles…

wow…2.5yrs and still no built in EVF.

tks for the news, will there be an on board flash?

Wouldn’t say similar in size. Similar in capability is probably a better way of putting it.

The whole E-P1/2 versus E-PL1/E-PL2 saga seems to be cloning itself into the E-PM1, E-PL3, E-P3 models. You get a modest set of features removed as you go down in size, but so far we’ve gotten very little differentiation. Indeed, so little that I’d generally recommend the lower cost E-PL2 over the E-P2 to virtually everyone. Why pay a lot more for so little more? So unless Olympus has some surprising features in the E-P3 that aren’t in the others Olympus is repeating the same mistake that they made with the 4/3 lineup. This is the old 1970′s HiFi strategy employed by the Japanese electronics makers right into oblivion. It worked best when there were ubiquitous Medium Box HiFi stores all around with piles of the various models littering the floor and salesmen on commission who were adept at persuading customers to “buy up.” Those days are long gone, and the net is a powerful anti-salesman when you pursue a wrong strategy.

No, the E-P3 is not a Pro camera, it’s semi-pro.
The announcement of the EP3 is on 30 june.

the external EVF is a pain in the ass.

it may be good from a technical viewpoint. but practically it´s a pain in the ass. small camera with an external “knob”… that makes it useless.
i cant carry it around with the EVF attached and i have no time to put it on when i need it (slows down my photography).

FAIL !!!

Don’t listen to what customers? A lot of the people in here have pretty high end needs, they seem to put little value in less size, want wheater-sealing an in-built EVF, expensive expensive lenses and so on. For me at least this things are not as important. In-built EVF would be nice, but its no killer feature, especially not if it increases weith and size a good deal. I don’t know if i represent the average consumer, but I don’t think a good deal of the people commenting here do either.

Its much more important for me with a better sensor, better high-iso performance. And dare i say it, I actually use the art-filters, people find them amusing and get more eager to pose for shots.

aaaahhhhhhhhrrrrrrrgggggggg!!!!

I wonder how many readers here would be the faked E-P3 from your image Admin. I guess of it would be <1000 Euro a lot.

I think the reality is that most camera manufacturers know what consumers want, but they have elaborate plans to release improvements and upgrades little by little over long periods of time.

Their biggest fear is releasing too good of a camera (Canon Pro1, Panasonic GF1). They aspire that consumers will be perpetually baited and constantly duped into buying minor upgrades to purposely crippled products.

Sad but true.

What, did they just decide to build a PRO camera a year ago? Did they have no roadmap of ideas when they began building micro four thirds?

It sure seems like they’re riding by the seat of their pants, kind of a “Just-in-time” in the world of ideas.

As in manufacturing, “just-in-time” actually means delivering the product late. For smaller companies who can’t build 100,000 cameras that they aren’t sure will sell well when they come to market (but believe they will), there is always the chance that it’ll get horrible reviews and you’ll end up eating that product yourself.

Olympus seems too timid to go all-in, and too bold to go home and quit playing.

WTF.

It’s a bit strange since they actually have a suitable EVF. Just integrating it into the body shouldn’t be very costly.

Thanks!!

Too true. That made me laugh. For once I hoped that Oly would meet or exceed our expectations but alas – more art filters it is.

Everyone knows by now that there’s a huge group of enthusiasts with money to spend on a rangefinder style camera that has a built-in EVF. It’s surprising that the overpriced Fuji X100 with a fixed lens is all that has been available for this market segment so far but that can’t last much longer I’m thinking. Maybe it’ll be the Sony NEX7 or Samsung NX200 or even a true successor to the GF1 from Panasonic that finally grabs the lion’s share of this market segment. Olympus may never recover from the damage caused to them in the marketplace by not meeting its customers’ needs. I love Olympus but wow this is getting discouraging.

Is olympus trying to kill themselfs? I really got that feeling right now…

G3 has a good sensor in a compact body with EVF, Sonys NEX-7 will feature an integrated EVF as well, when rumors are true, Samsung got its NX20 with EVF, so Olympus will stay the ONLY manufacture without an EVF… epic fail i would say.
So what should a E-P3 feature to hit big on the market?
An sensor with DR and Noise Performance BETTER then G3/GH2, an higher Quality Body then both, and lower Price Level. Realistic? not really…

So i will def. go for a G3…

Fuji only got two out of those four things right….

Yes, the “Pro” should have new sensor and EVF: http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-olympus-revolution-the-next-pen-pro-with-own-designed-sensor/ . While E-P3 should obviously be E-P2 + new Panasonic sensor. So that leaves us to speculate on the “mini”. Maybe Olympus has gone the Panasonic route and will ditch E-PL2 for smaller E-PL3 couple of months after the announcement?

It makes my decision super-easy, I guess: Buy the 12/2.0 now and wait for the pro-Pen. I wouldn’t be able to afford both at the same time anyway.

E-xxx series was not semipro, so not likely. (E-xx was semipro)

At least it isn’t a toy camera.

Probably means it’s not plastic. It’s probably also meant to be the replacement for the E-xxx series, since they’ve told us that if we want to upgrade, we should go m43. As an E-520 user, though, I’m thoroughly unconvinced. For a second, more compact camera, an EVF isn’t super important to me. But if it’s supposed to be a replacement for my 520? Heck no. No EVF, no sale.

my questions will be:

-will it have a built-in flash?
-if yes, can it control external flashes?
-G3 sensor or the “Oly-designed” sensor?
-same E-PX design? or a new one (w/grip)?
-AF-assist lamp?
-swivel/tilt screen?

I’ll shed no tears, as long as E-P3 has tilt-swivel screen.

You mention the XA… are you hinting something about the forthcoming Olympus mini?

I agree – what does Semi-Pro mean. Maybe “PRO” means a micro 43 replacement for the E-5 that Oly said could be coming in the future. I dont care if that is a couple of years away.

But in the meantime I had hoped that Olympus would come out with at least one model to meet the needs of “enthusiasts” that want to have a built-in EVF (either in rangefinder or dSLR styling). The Pana G3 has a built-in EVF and that is a mid -tier offering from Panasonic. It isnt called ‘semi-pro’. Its just a model with a built-in EVF for those that want them. It seems that Olympus dont get it.

Olympus sure wants to run the Photography department into the ground … in two years a Pen Pro will have so much competition that it will be niche like Leica.

A shame, I was hoping the pro would make a surprise appearance. Still, at least Panasonic have their act in gear, just a shame about the price of their lenses!

Shame. To date I have bought Panasonic, but I was open to offers from Oly. No EVF=no interest (unless it’s a small cam like the gf3).

Maybe Oly could do an even more radical gf3-esque camera? Very small (collapsible?) and thin, No LCD, EVF only, IBIS & flash. Pancakelicious! Let’s call it “XA”

Admin, w/o built in EVF. What is the definition of semi pro then?

This actually relieves me. I don’t want my dear VF-2 goes to waste…but I am hoping for a tilt screen preferably AMOLED =D

i thought it was also rumored that there were 2 “protoypes” out. one with EVF and one without. probably there is one in the works but we might not see soon. maybe by end of this year?

Someone’s not listening to us . Let’s hope it has articulated LCD at least…

Do you have info about the sensor