(FT3) Next bad news? New Panasonic DMW-LVF2 will not work on current GF cameras.

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This is a rumors website and I there are times I strongly hope my sources are wrong. Like in that case! Because according to an info I got from trustworthy source the new Panasonic DMW-LVF2 viewfinder which will be announced along the Panasonic GX1 on November 8 will not work on all current GF cameras! I have been told the LVF2 has completely different physical connections. This is pity. I don’t know yet if the reason behind that is that the “old” GF connections could not be used to transfer a higher amount of data for the viewfinder or if that is another move from Panasonic to sell more GX1 cameras. I wish Panasonic will explain the reason why the new viewfinder is not compatible with current GF cameras because otherwise people will get upset.

P.S.: The new viewfinder has 1.44k dots and is til-table. I don’t know the price yet. The current Panasonic DMW-LVF2 costs around 150 Euro/Dollars at Amazon, Olympus US store, Adorama, B&H, eBay.

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  • observer

    It comes bundled with the GX1 and not available separately therefore will not work with the old GF models?

    Maybe it also requires the new faster chipset to drive it…

  • andy

    No difference Panny will get your money…kerching!
    This news is dissapointing but the only way to make them listen is to not buy it.

    • katy

      Well if it is not compatible with older Panny cameras then of course people WILL NOT buy it!

      • andy

        I reckon it’ll be more likely there be a lot of grumbles..then buying of gx1s + evf by the ones who grumble about it.

        Bit like starwars nerds…they get shafted..complain.. but still buy the new stuff…get shafted again…so on.

    • dj

      andy: this is not news: its a rumour and thats all until its official im not gonna worry.

  • digifan

    If only it were interchangeable with Olympus E-P series.
    One can dream huh … 😉

    • Miroslav

      “If only it were interchangeable with Olympus E-P series.”

      If this rumor is true, that would be the best outcome. Unlikely, though.

      • digifan

        Yeah, I said it was a dream 😉
        You’re absolutely right that it would be unlikely.

  • With the time passing by and more announcements coming, it looks like Panasonic is digging deeper its own grave. Sometimes one must ask how did they come up with such a nice product as the GF1? They for sure know that the first evf is considered crappy and maybe people would go for this one, but you’re probably right, like this people have to buy the new camera instead of only the new VF.

    I can just say that this kind of news makes me sad, are they short in money? Well if they are lowering the such high priced lenses would help in sales I suppose, but then again I’m for sure not the client of that they’re aiming for, the again I think a lot of costumers will have to say something to Panasonic about this, because they’l for sure not be happy about this. I hope better days will come in the future to the Panasonic business core and more costumer friendly decisions might arise, but h it’s just me dreaming XD

  • Pendant

    Bye bye Panasonic…
    Bye Bye GF1…

    Hello Ricoh GXR Mount!

    • CRB

      I like the GXR..but very few lenses compared to m4/3…

      • Daemonius

        He surely means GXR M-mount. That have infinite ammount of lenses (or near infinite).

        • And all of them have a crop factor of 2. Great. 😉

          • MJr

            1.5

    • Frederic Hew

      Right, but unless you intend to use strictly m mount lenses you will have to change your lenses when you want to upgrade your sensor.

      • Pendant

        I meant the Ricoh GXR Mount A12 – it isn´t called “M-Mount” 😉

        @ Frederic Hew
        Basiclly it is a Grip, a sensorunit and the lenses…so it is even easier to upgrade the sensor – you can keep your grip, evf and lenses…

        But it has got a Sony APS-C, so it is already 2 generations futher than my m4/3 cameras…sorry, but I just can not wait anymore for a new sensor or a “pro” camera from Oly & Panasonic.

  • Barry

    It’s ’tiltable’ not til-table.
    Happy to help admin with English 🙂
    Keep up good work!

  • Ken B

    Maybe the veiwfinder is the same mount as Olympus VF2, if so then that opens up a choice.

    Wow imaging them giving us a choice, that would be nice change.

  • hipster

    Yeah, Panasonic is definitely going to lose many enthusiasts, including me. Sony and NEX, here I come.

    • mahler

      Just go and try to find decent lenses. Tell us, if you were successful.

      • I’d say both the 24mm and the 50mm are more than decent. See the 50mm here:
        http://thepicturedesk.blogspot.com/2011/10/youre-going-to-want-nex-e-mount-50mm.html

        Looks every bit as good as the Olympus 45mm/1.8 to me all while being $100 cheaper. Yes, Sony has a long ways to go to catch m4/3’s, but one by one they are going down the list. As soon as they get a few more pancakes (which they are rumored to now be working on) and their ultrawide zoom is officially announced (already shown a mock up of it), then the lens argument will really no longer be valid. Thanks to all the lens duplication by Panasonic/Olympus it’s going to be easier for Sony to catch up then it should be.

      • Rob-L

        Oh please – when m4/3 was introduced they had just a few native m43/ lenses. Give Sony a couple of years and we’ll have plenty. I swear, some people have short memories.

        • MJr

          Sure i will. Till then i’m using m4/3.

          • hipster

            I’ve survived on just the 20mm 1.7 for nearly two years now, partly cause I’m a student and lenses are expensive for me, and also because I’ve been waiting for fast primes. The Zeiss 24mm and the 50mm for the NEX look really good, and they’d be fine for what I need. And Sony has changed it’s lens roadmap to include more fast primes, I think even pancakes (?), so yeah Sony’s catching up in terms of lenses.

    • bilgy_no1

      ‘Yeah, Panasonic is definitely going to lose many enthusiasts, including me. Sony and NEX, here I come.’

      Have fun there with all those enthousiast lenses. I’m sure they will come eventually…

    • Well if you’re going to choose Sony then do it for a better sensor, or because they have a body you really like; but not because of this EVF compatibility issue. I say that because Sony did the exact same thing with their new external EVF. It is only compatible with the NEX-5N for reasons unknown.

      • Amir Kh

        The reasons are not unknown in Sony’s case. The first generation of Nex cameras did not have connectors for EVF.

    • dj

      i went to the Sony forums and guess what: there’s loads of complainers there too-seems no one camera company is devoid of the complainers …..

  • Matsuoka

    Man P&O really knows how to milk the m43 system

  • Berneck

    Well, the GF3 doesnt have a hotshoe to hold it, so that would make sense that it “will not work on all current GF cameras”. If they shut out the GF1 and GF2, then that’s just wrong….

  • uth

    i think just a few GF1 & GF2 owners want this EVF this time

  • sparedog

    vk found out that the gf1´s viewfinder port is only capable of outputting low resolution. so even if the evf2 was compatable, it would only show the same low res as the evf1

    • Berneck

      Hmm, they could shut out the GF1 if the is the case. I guess that’s the price we pay for digital technology.

  • MikeS

    Not a surprise, if true.

  • Colorado

    Strange how people willing to abandon Panasonic and go for PEN or NEX lines, when both lines also did not offer backward compatiblity when their EVFs were launched (EP1 and NEX5/3 don’t work with ANY EVF, am I right?). As observer friend wrote above, maybe the hardware on GF1 and GF2 cannont deal with the amount of data this new EVF. But I guess it is time to thow to rocks on Panasonic.

  • reverse stream swimmer

    Big deal!

    Sometimes, it’s better with a clean slate, rather than being hampered with crippled legacy items for the poor sake of compatibility.

    • mahler

      +1

  • Sokar

    From an Australian website:

    “Japan’s Panasonic posted a net loss of Y136.15 billion ($A1.68 billion) between April and September and now expected a full-year net loss, reversing an earlier profit forecast.

    The major consumer electronics and home appliance maker expects a net loss of Y420 billion ($A5.18 billion) for the year to March 2012, compared to a profit of Y30 billion ($A370.35 million) projected earlier due to reorganisation and restructuring costs.

    The first-half loss stemmed from declining sales, restructuring costs and the impact of the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, the company said.

    The loss came against a net profit of Y74.72 billion ($A922.41 million) logged in the same period a year” earlier.

  • oh For Fecks Sake Panasonic.

    Are you trying to p155 EVERYBODY off ?

  • ypocaramel

    At least it’s confirmed to be 1.44M unlike the earlier rumors. That at least it makes it on par with the G series, VF2, V1 and all those. I can live with it.

    Sony just has more OLED research. They did come out with XEL-1 back in 2008, first OLED TV generally available, good for them.

  • Mr. Reeee

    Before I slit my wrists over this, I’ll wait a few days for the official announcement. 😉

  • mahler

    So what? That is the way it goes. The new VF has high resolution and we have no clue, if the electronics of the older GF-cameras could cope with that new view finder at all. We should remember that Panasonic had to enhance the CPU and platine of the GH1 to have this higher refresh rates, which makes the view finder of the GH2 so much better.

    The connector and the electronics of the GF1 and GF2 are now more than a year old, no doubt that many things have changed so that it isn’t possible to have the new VF backwards compatible.

    I would not call this bad news. It is good news that Panasonic finally has developed a better external VF.

    • Thyl

      Presumably, you are right. The higher resolution requires a new connector. As Panasonic’s CEO stated: “how should we have known that one day, there will be LCDs with a higher resolution? It came as a total surprise to us, also that our valued customers actually wanted those higher resolution EVFs. We simply didn’t expect that when we developped our previous, errr system cameras”. Added Olympus’ CTO: “yep, same with our accessory shoe. You cannot seriously expect us to look into a foggy future that’s more then 180 days away!”

      • junyo

        Whether the older GF cameras can output a higher res image to the EVF is really irrelevant, a higher resolution EVF can always display a lower res image. And if the original connector can’t handle the additional bandwidth of the higher res output, one has to ask why didn’t Panasonic “futureproof” the connector by building it capable of handling more data than the EVF of that moment required? Could they not have anticipated that the technology would improve? Please, Panasonic’s expertise is the electronics side of things. So either this was a cynical decision for planned obsolescence or piss poor planning.

      • Esa Tuunanen

        Funny thing but in computers connections are designed to be flexible allowing future upgrades.
        Same for Compact Flash with latest cards still designed on top of parallel ATA bus of first cards from 17 years ago.

        But after three years from announcement of m4/3 it’s still evident that Oly and Pana have problems deciding what to make out of their system so this kind disposability should be expected.

  • Yes, that makes me mad, and it also makes me mad that I can’t use the box of 5-1/4″ floppy disks that I bought back in 1987 on my current computer. Clearly that’s another evil plot by a greedy manufacturer to get me to spend more money!

    But seriously, I HOPE that “physically incompatible” means that they are designing this viewfinder to be a more integrated fit with the top cover of the new camera. My biggest objection to the current Panasonic (and Olympus) add-on finders is that they stick up like silly warts, always ready to snag on clothing or the interior of a camera bag.

    A finder that conformed more snugly to the contours of the camera would go some way toward placating those who are always posting, “Waaah! Me wannie finder stuck on end like Sony NEX-7!” (Although it still probably wouldn’t satisfy those who constantly demand something more like the late, unlamented LC-1… without ever having actually seen or handled that oversized, ugly, clumsy brick of a camera…)

    • digifan

      The LC1 (DMC-LC1) was a P&S compact camera with a 2/3″ sensor and 4,9MP, it seems there are few people that actually know the 4/3rds camera.
      The 4/3rds camera is the “L1” as in DMC-L1.
      The former was a brick of a P&S the latter an even bigger brick.

    • Thyl

      Attach them to the left side, like the XA flash, and all problems are solved. Iirc, I had suggested that to Olympis before they released the E-p1. Unfortunately, back then, the money was needed for more urgent expenditures.

    • Thyl

      Just a little bit of planned thinking might have helped. We still use DVI and VGA conbectors for monitors, despite a much higher resolution. It is this planned obsolence that makes me mad. Call this a system? Ha!

    • Jesper

      “Waaah! Me wannie finder stuck on end like Sony NEX-7!” That certainly sums up a good number of postings on this site! Many haven’t realized that a central VF wedged into your face is the most stable camera hold yet devised.

      But on your serious hope for a more integrated blending of body and viewfinder, I fear you will be disappointed. I fear more in the way of warts, tumors. genitalia, and monstrous carbuncles, as others have described these add ons. But at least one with a better view!

      Although I sympathize with any wanting a better GF1/2 VF, didn’t Pany categorically state (after requests for such a while back) that there would NOT be a replacement. We seem to have been caught out by hope/speculation built around measured drip feed leaks.

  • D

    My initial reaction was one of disappointment but ultimately, I’d rather not have technological advancement be shackled by devotion to the past. Maybe they can sweeten the pot for us GF1/GF2 and heavily discount the older viewfinder.

    Hey Panasonic, hurry up and announce the other 2 X lenses so we can have something to be excited over.

  • st3v4nt

    The difference between Olympus and Panasonic is….when Oly build EP-1 they knew that EP-1 it’s half prototype half test case. They knew if they want to maintain the consumer they need to make their system as compatible as possible…that’s way they never make extreme changes that upset previous model owner like they do with EP-1. Hence the change between EP-2, EPL-1, EPL-2, EP-3, EPL-3 and EPM-1 not that big, even tough is not good for sales number.

    In the other hand Pany seems knew exactly how to create great body since first iteration, but seeing it’s not help sales number, they want to say goodbye as quickly as possible with their previous model especially all that have 1st number. Hence after say no more firmware upgrade for GF-1, G-1 and GH-1 to use X lenses they also (if rumor were true) don’t want GF-1 able to use the new LVF. So consumer will buy new body if they want to use new accessories and lenses….

    • napalm

      At least with Olympus, we get a “better” camera every iteration. That’s why I prefer sticking with them. I still keep my E-P1 while waiting for a model that is worth upgrading to.

  • Bob B.

    Makes sense. (to Panasonic). I own a GF1. Great camera. I would possibly have bought the new LVF for my GF1 (I can understand that it MAY not have been technically possible for a higher rez LVF to function on my camera)… We knew that Pany stopped supporting the GF1 when there was no firmware update for the X lenses ….but I most certainly am not going to buy a camera I do not want (GX1) to enjoy a better viewfinder. So I will not be spending any money Panasonic, on a viewfinder or a camera. Perhaps if they ever come up with an innovative GF1 upgrade, even if it did not have an internal viewfinder I would most likely buy both, but not this set. I will just spend time taking photos with the great camera and all the lenses I own!!!!!
    I know we do not have complete information yes…but let’s just say I am not sitting on the edge of my seat.

  • I’m not a huge fan of external VFs:

    (a) They protrude too much from the body

    (b) They are not properly fixed in the hot shoe, but rather clipped on. Meaning that they can accidentally slip from the hot shoe.

    (c) Clipping on/off external VF also means that one has to have some sort of bag or pocket for the VF itself and/or the hot shoe protector.

    (d) They are expensive

    Overall, to me the external VFs are simply too impractical.

    The advantage is obvious: the VFs are tiltable. But I see no reason why they can’t intergrate tiltable VF right into the camera body.

    • Thyl

      A) not if mounted elsewhere, eg to the left side of the camera.

      B) not if mounted to a proper mount, eg on the left side…

      C) and D) the price of flexibility

      • avds

        The main reason not to make the integrated EVF tiltable is because there’s usually (and almost inevitably) a shoe on top of it, meaning the EVF should be firmly seated on the camera body. The other is probably cost savings to ensure reasonable price of the body in spite of the inclusion of the already expensive EVF.

        So it appears they just don’t make tiltable integrated EVFs, except for the ancient Konica Minolta Dimage live-view cameras (which had no shoe).

        On the bright side, Panasonic’s LVF1 attaches very firmly to my GF1 and it takes quite a bit of force to remove it. Oh, and it also tilts and can be removed when not needed 🙂

        • RW

          @avds

          I used to own a Konica Minolta A2 and it definitely had a hot shoe (as well as a tiltable EVF). The hotshoe was in front of the EVF.

          I think there may be any number of viable configurations that could include a tiltable EVF and a hotshoe. Its not that crazy a problem.

          • avds

            Yep, you’re right about the A2, thanks! I also looked up some Nex-7 pics and the hot shoe sits to the side of the EVF on that camera. Too bad its EVF is not tiltable still as there really appears to be little excuse for that.

  • TheEye

    Does that finder at least lock in the hot shoe?

  • Chris

    Well not that I care much about the new Panasonic camera, but what planet are Panasonic on anyway.

  • TempTag

    Not a surprise considering they switched the G series battery for less than clear reasons.

    I own a GF1 and the old viewfinder. The new viewfinder not being compatible would not prevent me from buying either the GX1 or the new viewfinder, however, if as appears the new camera shows no clear improvement over the GF1 in terms of IQ I see no reason to “upgrade”.

  • spanky

    Wow, OK. Panasonic is getting really ridiculous now if this is true. First, their firmware upgrades and lenses aren’t compatible with the older models, now they’re making their accessories not backward compatible… all for the sole reason of forcing consumers to buy their latest camera models. Well, I guess people keep falling for it, but for how long I’m not sure. Why would I buy into a system if I know the system will keep changing in time and won’t allow me to use the old stuff with it? Kinda negates the whole reason for having a system.

    If Nikon had come up with a worthy mirrorless competitor it would have been game over for Panasonic. Panasonic has a lot to learn about backward compatibility from Nikon.

    • kimi

      +10

    • kimi

      +1

      exactly!!

    • avds

      +1

  • julian

    just to be clear, this is not just a money-grab. the GF1 connector only outputs to the resolution that the EVF1 could display. even if the new GX1 and new EVFX were to use to the same old GF1 connection, making the new EVFX backwards-compatible, you would still only be getting the same low-resolution, so there would precisely ZERO point. everybody complaining needs to understand this.

    if the GF1 were able to output at higher res than the EVF displayed, we would probably have already seen a newer updated EVF for it. this was always my hope, but then i found out this was not possible.

    as long as the new EVF is really good quality, it’s the next best thing to a built-in EVF, and in some ways even better (depending on one’s preferences).

    • dzv

      >even if the new GX1 and new EVFX were to use to the same old GF1 connection, making the new EVFX backwards-compatible, you would still only be getting the same low-resolution, so there would precisely ZERO point. everybody complaining needs to understand this.

      Actually, I would disagree that there would be no point. Even if the new EVF could only output the lower-res on the GF1, it would still be useful if it were physically compatible. Eg. If I already own a GF1 and LVF1, and now I want to “upgrade” (using the term lightly) to the GX1. If they were physically compatible, I could hold onto my LVF1 and use it on the GX1, perhaps while I save a litte more to buy the newer LVF2. As it stands now, I would have to upgrade both, or do without an LVF.

      Another scenario would be if you decided to hold onto the GF1 while also buying the GX1. If the LVF2 were compatible, you could just have one EVF that you could use on both bodies.

      Not to mention that the new X lenses are supposedly not supported by the GF1 (is that true)? So if I want one of the newer lenses, I’m also forced to “upgrade.” Hmmmm… As user spanky said above:

      “Kinda negates the whole reason for having a system.”

      • RW

        dzv says: “Kinda negates the whole reason fpr having a system”

        Exactly. When you design a camera system, the implicit contract with your customers is that you are forward thinking and in it for the long term with a family of products that play nicely together – and will continue to play nicely (for more than 2 years anyway)…

  • bilgy_no1

    ‘Next Bad News’???

    Was there bad news before than? GX1 looks like a great competitor against the NEX-5N: good sensor (better than old 12MP), good controls on the body and undoubtedly great touch screen to complement, good selection of lenses: first mirrorless system to introduce bright zoom lenses. What’s not to like?

    When the GF2 was announced, I remember everyone was very angry about supposed ‘dumbing down’ of the camera. ‘Give us a real updated GF1’ is what many here expressed as their wish. This GX1 seems to be right on that spot!

    ‘Please Panasonic’ give us a better external viewfinder’ was another often heard complaint. Here it is. So, it doesn’t work with the GF1, but Panasonic already confirmed more than a year ago that there will be no updated viewfinder for the GF1.

    • admin

      The first bad news was the low resolution LCD with 460k. Because the japanese rumor source said it would have 920k.

      • Bob B.

        Admin ….I have some confusion on the price of the now GX1 with X-Zoom kit lens. in one post your said it would be 999 Euros. In another post you say it will be $999 US. Which is it? Thanks.

      • nobody

        Wasn’t “no built in EVF” the first bad news ?

        • Bob B.

          I think “No New Sensor” was really the first bad news…

    • kimi

      getting rid off the drive mode lever, adding an “iA” button, isn’t really good upgrade of GF1. It is, to me, taking a good manual control feature away and adding unnecessary button. 2 steps backward. sorry I’m just disappointed 🙁

    • dj

      Bilgy_no1: you said it!!! i think the new GX1 sounds great to me–cant wait to see the reviews and handle it in the stores

  • Milt

    Am disappointed. Wanted a EVF with decent resolution for my GF1. Have not bought the lower resolution one. Even less likely to buy one now that I know the new one exists.

  • Olympius

    Well, my aversion to external viewfinders has now been ratcheted up again. I have a feeling that not only will the new Panny EVF not be compatible with older GF’s, which isn’t that big a deal really, but my fear is that the new GX1 will not be compatible with the old EVF (DMW-LVF2), which means those who already own the old EVF will find it useless for their new GX1.

    Hence, even though it would seem that an external EVF should be something that you should be able to use on any camera that accepts an EVF, the truth is you might be stuck having to pay for a new camera, and a new EVF. Might as well just buy a G3 or GH2, and live with the built-in unit.

    I also fear this new EVF will not be compatible with the LX5, which is a shame, since it would nice to have a EVF you could share between the two different types of cameras.

    I hope my fears are unfounded, but time will tell.

    If the price of the GX1 + new EVF is close to or greater than that of GH2 with 14-42, I’ll take a pass on the GX1 and just go with a GH2, or the GH3 when that comes out in 2012. The GH series cameras are incredible, and give one a tremendous “bang” for the buck. Their external controls are intuitive and very easy to use, and the tilt-screen and built-in EVF are just icing on the cake. The only thing they would need to be perfect is a metal body, and and external switch for changing aspect ratios, like the LX5 has.

    Anyway, the GX1 should give some serious competition to the EP-3 I would think. That’s not such a bad thing.

    – Olympius

    • Mr. Reeee

      +10
      There are too many conflicting rumors flying around to worry too much. I only wish that Olympus and Panasonic had cooperated more and used the SAME Accessory Port! That would have been a great move and made for better system integration.

      I programmed my GH2’s FN1 button to bring up the aspect ratio options. I should have done that on day one! Now if only I could reassign the Auto Video button…

      • Olympius

        Good idea about using the FN1 button for aspect ratios! I’m going to implement that on my GH1. When I first got the camera, I thought I would be using 4:3 exclusively, but I’m really enjoying the 16:9 and square formats too. I don’t use 3:2 that much, but every once in a while it comes in handy.

        I was hoping the GX1 would have the multi-aspect sensor like the GH series, but I guess that was too much too hope for. I can live happily with the GH series though, no problem.

        What I’d really love to see is Olympus using the 16mp sensor in a new line of DSLR’s, to show some love to the old 4/3 crowd. But that’s completely unrealistic. We are lucky they are still making the E-5.

        Speaking of accessory ports, that’s something I’d love to see Olympus put on DSLR’s too– some of those accessories, even the EVF, could be very useful on a regular DSLR type camera.

        – Olympius

  • anon

    i hope theres a gx1 kit with this as well

    • safaridon

      It would make sense for Pany to also offer a GX1 kit with EVF especially if there is a delay in delivering their own inbody model. The rumored price for GX1 with Xlens is $999 so would expect the above kit price with EVF would be $1200 or same as NEX7 body only? If offered with std zoom or other prime like 14mm or 20mm this price could be lower.

  • Chris

    Hey, it’s from Panasonic, so it’s not like it will actually be available to buy anyway. At least, not until they announce the VF-3 which will only be compatible with the GX-3, neither of which will be available until the VF-4 and GX-4 have been announced a year later. Etc., etc.

  • Another good reason to stay away from these cameras. Panasonic as well as all the others are just making cameras for Japanese school girls and if they get a bunch of techno geeks along for the ride, they’re laughing all the way to the bank.

    • dj

      Mirrorless–its the future and i personally find the m4/3 format has the best size to performance ratio.

  • hiplnsdrftr

    Pretty much ALL camera manufacturers are stuck in a cycle of rehashing the same cameras over and over, essentially tricking customers into buying the next new model, accessories etc.

    The last thing they want to do is make too good, too perfect of a camera, because obviously, they want you to buy a new one 18 months later.

    The GF1 was that rare camera that was too good, and was accidentally put on the market before they realized they had shot themselves in the foot.

  • Rob-L

    Olympus did this same thing with their “Pen Pal” Wifi accessory – it wasn’t backward compatible either. Same with their lens accessories. You had to have the newer versions of the lenses to use them. Way to screw over your early adopters morons!

  • matt

    calm down everybody, we are waiting for gf pro which i think will be announced alongside the gh3 and the fast x lenses..i can´t imagine better time to announce for panasonic than then.. many of you are crying like a babies because the lack of new senzor, 920k articulated screen and build in EVF.. gx1 is just a gf4 for me, which is targeted on ep3 and i think the G3 senzor has the same or maybe better performance than ep3.. so tweaked senzor would be better than oly´s.. we have to wait for the real big deal.. i think panasonic is thinking.. first they make an ep3 killer, then release firmware for gh2 so it can compete in some things with new A65/77/nex7 and later when 5Dm3 will be here they come with gf pro and gh3 and x lenses.. that makes sense to me..

  • Steve Biro

    This is all very interesting. I’ve owned a number of micro four-thirds cameras over the past few years: E-PL1, G1, GF1 and G2. Over time, I gradually decided I’d largely be sticking with the Panasonic side of the system.

    But I recently picked up an E-PM1, which now replaces all of my smaller cameras, like the LX3 and any point-and-shoot. I thought this would remain my only Olympus micro four-thirds camera, as I have a G3 on order from Pansonic Direct. But the G3 (body only) has been backordered for three months and now we’re hearing about compatability issues with the latest Panasonic viewfinders and lenses.

    Granted, none of this would effect a G3 (if I ever get it). But I’m beginning to wonder if it might be better idea to get an E-P3. At least it can use all of my Lumix lenses (14-45, 40-200, 100-300, 14 and 20). I just picked up the Oly 45 (fantastic lens) and the E-PM1 came with the Oly 14-42.

  • safaridon

    This rumor is hardly new news as should have been assumed from the start since Pany is using a higher resolution and twice as fast refresh rate for the new EVF. Why all the negativity on this forum rather than posting positive headings only encourages more negative comment?

    What would be worthy news would be pictures of the new EVF, more technical details as to EVF size, refresh rate, whether or not OLED and even more important the PRICE.

    Why all the howling about lack of backward capability as neither Oly or Sony have done. Even the NEX5 cannot use the NEX5N EVF so why expect such miracle from Pany? Olys new EVF can be used on older models with exception of EP1 because it is lower resolution than the first one.

    • Steve Biro

      safaridon… for me, it’s not just an EVF issue, but what appears to be a POTENTIAL trend on the part of Panasonic. It would be nice of the new EVF were compatible with older bodies, even if it defaulted to lower resolution when used on them. A possible problem with X lenses on older micro four-thirds bodies would bother me more, however. Still, if the issue can be solved with a firmware update, then I would have no problem. I think many people are sensitive to the backwards compatibility issue specifically because companies like Sony – particularly with its proprietary accessories – have been pretty brutal in this area. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hope for more from Panasonic.

      • safaridon

        Thanks for your comment. As I understand it based on comments from other posters the new EVF may well still work at lower resolution on the GF1/GF2 we shall see if the configuration has changed.

        Also in regard to compatibility of the Xlens with the GF1 reportedly that is no problem as only effects a couple special features of the Xlens such as showing the actual focal length zoomed etc and that the lens definitely could be used on the GF1 even if minus firmware upgrade.

    • dj

      safaridon—you hit it on the nose!–some people here going crazy and so far we havent seen the real product.

  • Xuereb

    M4/3 is moving sideways not forwards. I wanted an better dynamic range and to avoid highlights being burned out.

    With my disappointment over the GX1, the inability to fit the improved evf, I am selling up my GF1 and lenses and moving to Sony. Panasonic don’t have their heart in improvements which matter to real photographers. It is difficult to see how their products can hold their current market price against significantly better competitive products.

    • Perty

      Real photographers selling their gf1 should move over to Sony. See you later real photographer, I think you’re the only one.

    • dj

      Xuereb: your disapointment with the GX1…..have you seen the images yet???

  • Rick D

    I’d considered upgrading from the LX3 to the LX5 had the new EVF been compatible, so with this news I’m shelving that idea. Presumably, the LX replacement will take it.

  • RW

    I don’t feel that every accessory that is ever released has to be compatible with every camera body back to the beginning of time – but this rumor disturbs me nonetheless.

    I bought my GF1 in February, 2010 – when it was first released. That’s less than 2 years ago, and now the new X lenses and this new EVF are not compatible with it. I would truly hope that the product roadmap for a company that is marketing a camera “system” would be recognizing the fact that system users want to “grow” with the system – not just replace it every 2 years. When I shot Nikon, I never had these problems. If I bought DX glass, it was only compatible with a DX sensor – but basically worked with any DX body released since Nikon first got into digital. If I bough FX glass, it was compatible with any camera back to 1959 (film or digital). That is what I call a true camera system.

    Replacing fundamental system components every 2 years with ones that are incompatible with what came before is a point and shoot (buy, use and discard) philosophy. At best, this shows that Panasonic isn’t thinking 2 years ahead. At worst, it means that they are not a camera system at all – just pretending to be one in order to get you hooked with an investment in lenses.

  • It’s little things like this that have me turning my head toward competing systems. If I’m going to have to entirely reinvest in the whole system each time I look to upgrade the body, I will certainly be looking at what other systems have to offer.

    Not to play the bitter ex, but I’m not seeing the leaps forward in sensor performance that a mature system should be able to offer. For me, one who’s looking for a PEN/GF sized compact (so I admittedly don’t look at the G nor GH bodies) I have been waiting for a nice reason to upgrade from the GF1. Couple this with a “system” that is now offering new optics that aren’t 100% backward compatible with older bodies, and the need to buy a new body to gain access to accessories which should have been offered years ago anyway is really starting to upset me. I’ll wait for the specs and actual image samples from the GX to fully pass judgment, but if these leaked rumors come to be, I can’t say I’ll be thrilled to continue with the system when others out there are starting to offer good systems with better IQ (and pricing!).

    Wouldn’t be that hard to sell my 20mm bundled with my GF1 and EVF-1 would it?

    • spam

      Releasing new products like the viewfinder and making it backward compatible isn’t always easy. Making a port that support a certain resolution work with a new device with higher resolution might be possible, but’s probably not worth the effort.

      You can always argue that Pansonic should have foreseen that they would release a better EVF sooner or later, but how many users do you expect would upgrade to the newer EVF? It’s bound to be a really tiny fraction and not really worth the effort.

      Panasonic at least offered a EVF from day one while all Oly E-P1 users have to buy new cameras to get one, same with first genereation Sony NEX-users and Samsung just released NX200 with no EVF-support at all. Probably because almost nobody bought the one for NX100. Pentax Q – no EVF, Nikon J1 – no EVF.

      And the X-lenses are compatible with GF1 and all mFT-cameras, even Oly ones.

  • anon

    i thought the whole point of buying into a camera system is that everything was supppose to work together

  • Nelson

    Yeah the Sony external viewfinder only works on 5N, do you see many existing NEX-5/3 user jump off?

  • Bryan Br

    Yeah, I know at least one NEX user who jumped over to m4/3.

    The lack of controls and reliance on the LCD menus really hurts NEX.

    And no a $1200 NEX7 is not the answer.

  • ijack

    A bunch of kids complaining and complaining all day.

    I bet most of you whiners are the same people who complain that you want the viewfinder external and would probably won’t get the new GX1 and the external finders you so hate anyway.

    • dj

      ijack: they’ll all go buy Sony and start complaining about their cameras on the Sony forums…..

  • Perty

    Sorry but I gotta say the NEX cameras are the ugliest I have ever seen. They remind me of a Saturn vue… Sorry Saturn vue owners.

  • ijack

    A bunch of kids complaining and complaining all day.

    I bet most of you whiners are the same people who complain that you want the viewfinder internal and would probably won’t get the new GX1 and the external finders you so hate anyway.

  • dj

    Headline says : ” NEXT BAD NEWS”…….um what was the 1st bad news???-if they mean the GX1 well thats not bad news at all: new new GF1 camera with 16MP..im there!! hmmm-this website seems quite negative doesnt it???

  • Elf

    I think Admin should use more discretion in his headline|s. The off the wall expectations were on this forum fueled with his wrong rumors previouslz. And his declaration this was a panasonic pro model. What we are seeing is the unraveling of his misinformation.

  • tago

    Panasonic said,
    “The External terminal for EVF,it is necessary to run through high-frequency parallel data. In that case, EMI increases and cannot confirm a standard.
    Therefore, GF1 cannot output data of more than 200,000 pixel to the external terminal.”
    Sep. 2009
    http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/interview/20090909_314443.html

  • Those calling the critics whiners can equally be considered nothing more than blinded fan boys.

    Look, I’ve been a huge fan of the micro 4/3 system and would love to see it make large steps forward. I’ve chosen to invest in it personally, and of course I’d like the system I’ve chosen to provide me with cutting edge tools.

    While I understand that sometimes these “cutting edge” tools may come at a cost (backward compatibility, etc) I guess what I’m saying is I need to see some of these supposed advancements as actually living up to a “cutting edge” billing.

    What leaps has the micro 4/3 system made in the last 2.5-3 years compared to other systems? Putting aside the lens offerings which I still feel provide the most complete optical system of the mirrorless systems currently, aside from the GH series, and adding a touch screen to current models…? I was hoping, (and still am) that the GF1 replacement will actually provide a large enough gap from the GF1 to make it a compelling option. Panoly have made some really strange decisions in my opinion by releasing reworked cameras without really making major technical advancements (G1, G2, G10, G3 in the span of 3 years?) (GF1, GF2, GF3 in the span of 2?) (EP1/2, EPL1/2/3) Just odd, that’s all.

    I am really hoping that the actual GX1 provides some compelling reason (I’m wanting to replace my GF1 with another compact m4/3 body that can actually outperform my GF1 by a noticeable amount), and until it’s actually released, we will just spin our wheels here on rumor sites, but to hope for a system to be able to see a couple years into the future with compatibility isn’t far fetched and poor form if they did in fact “not see” the need for a higher res EVF release for instance, then they’re in bigger trouble that I’d thought. I think, more realistically, it is a deliberate move to sell more new camera bodies. Going back to it, if the new bodies are head and shoulders above the current offerings, then that is one thing, it provides a compelling reason to re-buy into the system, but if we’re seeing another reworked 12mp sensor with a slightly tweaked processor providing comparable IQ/noise performance/dynamic range/12bit RAW capture, etc then I think those of us who are “whining” are well within our right to be unmoved by it. Doesn’t mean we are constantly looking for higher performing gear, just upset that the system we’ve chosen to invest in seems to be spinning it’s wheels while in neutral, not really getting anywhere while other systems are making some serious waves. We all know that the micro 4/3 sensor will always be behind the APS-C sensors when strict IQ performance is concerned. That’s fine, but I want to see Panoly really give us some kind of advancement to make the argument interesting. Again, the whole of the system is still more complete and for that I feel it is still the best “system” but even that is beginning to disappear. It’s competition and I’d like to see them compete, that’s all.

    • Jorginho

      Nonsense. First of all you take away the lenses especially and the GH out of the equation to make your point. The lenses are precisely the thig showing that Panasonic and Oly are looking at a system rather than bodies.
      Look at how many have come, look at how small current x-lens series is and also how well some of these lenses perform. Look at the upcoming 12-35 mm and 35-100 mm which, if fast enough are a milestone in mirrorless camera’s in my book.

      G3 is not just another minor enhancement. It has a much better sensor than its predecessors, better video, much better EVF, much faster AF, smaller and at a great price. It is a big step.
      G1 in itself was the most innovative camera for years, so get that out if it too. You cannot expect such giant leaps after this one.

      What I see is that Panasonic and Oly are widening the gap as a complete system simply because they do come up with new bodies, but most of all because their lens linup is getting broader and better faster than the others. Especially Sony.

      Those are the facts in my view and it has got nothing to do with being a fanboy. Not at all.

      • I’ll have to politely disagree with your assessment Jorginho. What I’ve said is far from nonsense, even if you feel so.

        From purely a “system” standpoint, you are partially correct. But, I took the GH series (and even G series) out of the equation because those compete, in my opinion with the Canon Rebels/xxxD’s and Nikon Dxxxx’s of the world, in which case, they are a less complete system with fewer proprietary optics and poorer sensor performance. I don’t care about the GH or G series cameras because I’ll never buy one. I don’t look to the m4/3 system to replace my dSLR’s but to replace my point and shoot/pocket cam. Granted, the GH series does an amazing job with video, but then we start the argument bringing native video cameras into it. Neither here nor there. For what it is, the system is good, but not great as it cannot compete on certain levels. You can offer me as many over priced optics in a system as you want, but if the sensor technology in the camera that I am interested in is still fumbling around with 3-4 year old technology, then I’m sorry, I’m not going to be impressed. Add to that the need to buy this new/old tech camera to gain access to an accessory that they certainly should have foreseen the need for in past camera bodies and it comes across as poor marketing/vision.

        What I have a problem with is Panasonic’s seeming inability to anticipate a couple years into the future. I understand why the new EVF won’t work, it’s that they didn’t have the foresight, or are just forcing us to repurchase that upsets me.

        I (like many) want a compact pocket system camera that is why I look at the GF series, PEN’s, NEX cameras, NX cams, etc. I don’t care about the G nor GH cameras because I already have a dSLR system that I use that provides me with a higher quality image that I am very happy with. What I (and I’m sure many others) are hoping for with a GF/GX platform is that we are able to get the highest quality possible to fit into a large pocket. Put the GH2 sensor (or better) in the GX and then we have something, but if we are going to see a re-worked 12mp sensor with similar performance and IQ, then I will gladly save my money. We may come from two different demographics which is fine and a testament to the m4/3 system being able to play to two very different demos, but what I have seen over the last 3 years from Panoly has been very small, incremental steps while systems like Sony’s (I’m admittedly not a fan when I reviewed a NEX5 for Sony) have made much more defined and substantial steps in sensor tech in less time. (see NEX3/5 to the current C3/5n/7).

        My question to you, and anyone else accusing those of us who are critical of “whining” is this; Do you feel that if the GX comes out with a rumored 12.1mp sensor (not the original rumor of the G3 sensor), and relatively little else other than a touch screen (same 460k resolution), maybe a slightly higher frame rate, still holding onto 12bit RAW file capture and maybe a stop better high ISO noise performance, is this, in your opinion good enough 3 years (and 2 other camera bodies GF2/GF3) later to really demand praise?

        I’m sure it will sell okay, but I would like to think that Panasonic is capable of doing more than rebranding old tech while throwing everything they can think of against the wall to see what they can get to stick. I fear that both Panasonic and Olympus are going to be very challenged financially in the coming years. Both of their camera divisions seem to be in financial trouble (and with some of the decisions G2/G3/G10, GF2/3 or EP2/3, EPL1/2, EPM1 all being released within 18 months or so of each other with little to differentiate between models there seems to be no reason why they wouldn’t be).

        I’m only being critical because I’d like to see the compact side of the system grow and compete. This is the benefit to the m4/3 system, the ability to stay compact. I have the GF1, which while I’m happy with, it is certainly a camera that can be vastly improved upon, and the rumored specs of the GX camera don’t quite seem to do that to me. Not enough to justify $800+ anyway. As I see it, these specs should have become the GF2 a year or so ago.

        When you say that they are widening the gap, you are incorrect. The sales numbers show otherwise. As much as I personally disagree with the way that the NEX system has developed, it is growing at a far higher rate than the micro 4/3 system is, regardless of the lenses on offer from either. Yes the m4/3 system is “more complete” but that doesn’t matter if people are moving away from it.

        All I’d like to see is fewer new cameras with each release being a true upgrade with noticeably better performance. We saw it with the GH1 > GH2, let’s see that same spirit with the compact side of things in the GF/GX series for those of us who are using this system to buy into or replace our pocket cams.

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