(FT3) E-P5 has no integrated viewfinder? New external viewfinder.

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WIll the new PEN have no integrated viewfinder like the superb PEN-F?

There are plenty of rumors going around the web saying the E-P5 has an integrated viewfinder. And I am also one of those guys wishing to see a camera like that. But sometimes wishes just remain that…dreams. I still have no FT5 super reliable rumor yet but the only info I got is that the E-P5 actually has no integrated viewfinder! The rumor hasn’t been confirmed by a second source yet and even trusted sources sometimes can get wrong info from their sources so take it with a grain of salt. But if the rumor would be correct this would be huge disappointment for me. Although of course we have to see what the specs are…they may be so good that I will not care about the missing built-in EVF.

The source also told me that the E-P5 will come along a new external viewfinder with a 2,44 Million dot resolution.
P.S.: PEN-F acutions on eBay (Click here). Great cam!

Rumors classification explained (FT= FourThirds):
FT1=1-20% chance the rumor is correct
FT2=21-40% chance the rumor is correct
FT3=41-60% chance the rumor is correct
FT4=61-80% chance the rumor is correct
FT5=81-99% chance the rumor is correct

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  • ArKersaint

    Errare humanum est sed perseverare diabolicum !

    • ArKersaint

      Maybe same logic as for lens hoods : Olympus just greedy about additional purchase of VF ?

      • Anonymous

        How long will it be before they make the rear screen an optional extra too?

        • Flash

          It really should no longer be there it should go the way of the take up reel. After all this is 2013. It is so last year.

          I am serious. Just have a better viewfinder and a wireless connection to my phone, in case I want to share the photo with anyone at the time. This will leave more room for dials and specific indicators, so maybe we can get rid of most of the menus and make the camera a better tool.

      • Anonymous

        Olympus isn’t holding a gun to our heads and forcing us to buy their crap. We are buying it all by ourselves, in spite of the fact that we don’t like their tactics. What does that say about us?

        • Anonymous

          Well if we look at Olympus profit maybe we don’t buy enough?

      • LOL, if you have VF2 or VF3 need you not VF4 what is wrong by this.
        I think them will sell also E-P5 out VF.

  • Sören

    Hmm, Nex-6 Body is 680 Euro in Germany at the moment.
    A Viewfinder is worth 200 Euro, so Olympus would have to
    sale the new E-P5 for 500 Euro. But this price-range is already occupied by the E-PL5.
    I really see no space for Olympus to position a EVF-less model between E-PL5 and E-M5.

    • tutifruit

      @Sören

      You need to remember that the Nex 6 does not have any IBIS whatsoever, and IBIS aint cheap!

      • Ulli

        would be great if it has same IBIS as the OMD, I really like it for video and stabilizing the viewfinder when manual focusing in magnified view.

        • jazzcrab

          +1 million! I am waiting for the E-P5. If it does not have the 5-axis IBIS (and no integrated viewfinder), I will not buy it; I would rather consider to buy the E-PL5 instead.

      • Sören

        Well, I guess the E-P5 will not get the great 5-axis IBIS of the OM-D.
        And the normal Pen-IBIS is just average and will not be horrible expensive…

      • Es

        IBIS only helps with low light static scenes. At this price range, that doesn’t matter as much.

        • Uh no, IS (any shape or form) helps against camera shake, but it doesn’t ‘freeze’ motion. That is really not the same as ‘low light static scenes only’. Its also that 300mm telephoto shot where 1/100 is enough to freeze motion (low motion scene) but not enough for safe handholding, especially when not using a viewfinder or having to be ‘quick’ with a less stable camera as a result.

          It also helps for that waterfall where you want to smooth out the water with a longer exposure and don’t have a tripod and no support that allows for a nice framing.

          It also helps (provided it is configured properly) with creating nice panning shots by eliminating camera shake in one direction.

          That all just needs any form of IS. The 5 axis IBIS of the E-M5 is better then what the PENs have (and then any OIS on any current Lumix lens), but that doesn’t make everything else useless, it just makes that the use cases for those are less extreme.

          Its not magic, but it is a lot more useful then you make it out to be.

    • EASY

      No way!
      What is the point of EP5, what will be new features?
      Then it is rather better to get EPL5 and forget about EP5…

      • BLT

        The point of the e-p5 :

        Better ergonomics and more physical controls! Also a proper screen, not this damn 16:9 screen with a 4:3 sensor (leading to a tiny 2.5 inch VF image)

        These are the reasons I would never consider an E-PL5 – despite it seeming like a very nice camera overall.

        • If one puts a 16.9 display on the camera and the maximum height is reached with that display. What makes you think you will get a bigger image with a 4/3 display.
          Some people use it for movies (so I have heard) so 16.9 is OK some use it for non 4/3 shots so 16.9 is ok.
          But if the maximum image height is the size of the 16.9 and its taking up the maximum on the back then a 4/3 screen is not going to work for others and will do nothing for you as it ain’t possible to fit a higher screen.

        • Ross

          The E-M5 has taken the middle ground & uses the 3:2 ratio display.

      • jim

        I’de rather have a 21″ 4k plasma on the rear instead 🙂

    • Well, perhaps another year or two for me to wring the life out of my E-PL1. Plenty of lenses to buy in the meantime!

    • Do

      The E-Px models (unlike the E-Plx) never were about a good spec-price ratio, but about look and feel. It’s more fair to compare E-PL5+VF2 with Nex6, or the upcoming E-P5+VF? with Nex 7.
      Of course, a convincing answer to Nex6 is needed though.

  • Admin: Why are you lobbying your own preferences mixed between rumors? Sometimes it is difficult to say if this site is a rumor site or a blog for your opinions… I would prefer the first one but then again, this is your site. 😉
    -p-

    • admin

      Hi Pekka! This is a rumor site written by a man, not by a robot 🙂 And my opinion is here just tostart a discussion, not to say how things should be.

      • Okay, you´re right there, opinions create discussion.
        -p-

    • Maybe you can find a Swiss site that’s neutral? 😉

      • Fish

        +1 Haha best comment

    • metalaryeh

      In this case he is lobbying the preferences of likely 99% of m43 users. He should be encouraged.Even if he view was not that of the average shooter, he should be encouraged. It would be an insult to the readers if he thought his opinion carried so much weight that it would be harmful to read!

  • tutifruit

    Before buying my OM-D I was using the EPM1 with the VF2 viewfinder. Moving to the built in view finder I actually find to be a regression.

    With the built in vf I have to bring my eye into the plane of the camera whereas with the VF2 I could swivel the vf along its axis meaning I didn’t have to contort myself to get a good look.

    I would just like to see a hot shoe to the far left of the camera so that I could mount an external vf in the rangefinder position which I prefer to having it in the centre.

    • Tim

      i like the hot shoe where it is, because i like the optical Viewfinders like the VF-1, and you couldnt use those when they put the hotshoe out of the optical axis.

      The option for the optical VF, is the main reason why i didnt go for the O-MD, because if you add a VF on top of the hump the camera gets bulky.

      So now i use the VF-2 most of the time, and chance to the optical VF when i want a smaller camera, or shooting on the street.

  • Vivek

    Remember the curtain stuff they had for the EP-1 and how they disappointed everyone with no EVF?

    Now, they are doing the same curtain trick. So, expect no integrated EVF.

    If they bring back the BlendTech advert, it will confirm that there will be no integrated EVF.

    Olympus, where is that “will it blend” advert? LOL!

  • Oh well, no E-P5 for then.

    🙁 I really hoped for that one, oh well only time will tell.

  • tomas

    I dont plan to buy new camera this year …anyway this is huge disapointing

  • Charles

    I´d like to buy a new camera this year and if it´s mFT, it should have an evf, ibis and the newest sensor – maybe I´ll wait for the Om-d7…

    • tutifruit

      “evf, ibis and the newest sensor”

      The E-M5 fits the bill and can be got for $800, excellent value now that chumps like me have paid the early adopter fee 🙂

      • digifan

        +1

      • JF

        +1 just bought my second E-M5 for 809 euros (body only), you can even find it for 770 euro but the seller is not very well rated (slow and unresponsive but items finally comming). That’s 27 % less than the launch price…
        E-M5 is a good value for the price now !

      • maxter

        this is only true for the US, in europe the OM-D is still at 1100€ (thats 1400$ !!), which is exactly what they asked for it 9 month ago.

      • Ross

        I’ve recently added the HLD-6 grip to my E-M5 which makes it even nicer.

  • wt21

    Hmmmm… Already have an EPL5. No need for the EP5, then, if no integrated VF.

  • Camera like a cat

    Externalisier Viewfinder? I dont mind ad Long as vf integrates with the camera. The Existenzgründer Vf Alessandro remain a bulky assecoire.

    A new vf needs a lower, flater approach!

  • solar

    FT3 rumor, I hope this is incorrect. Have they not learnt anything from the mirrorless market? Unbelievable. More than 3 years, 3 Pen iterations, 2 EVFs, and now abother new cake of soap with and additional external VF required at additional expense. The top level Pen will still remain the same format as the 2 lower models, albiet with more buttons. One cannot use an external flash and a VF at the same time. For close to $1000 this is totally unacceptable.

    If their competition can achieve this, then maybe their competition deserves more custom.

  • Tim

    Well if it don´t have a build in VF- i ll buy a G5 or, if the price drops, an O-MD…
    But still, i would be really disapointed if this is true. A rangefinder style PEN is the cam i want since the E-P1. I had 4 different PENs so far- and i own the VF-2 since it hit the market- but still i want a integrated VF in the left corner of my camera.

    btw Sony isnt tempting, i dont like there concept, but fuji would be an option for me if the E-X2 will feature the same updates than the X100s it would be quite close to my dreams/needs…

    • Bob B.

      Yeah…if they can just iron out that AF issue…the EX would REALLY be appealing.

      • john

        + either tiltable EVF or tiltable screen, consistent EVF performance (problems with panning afaik)

  • vdaffyduck

    No EVF, no E-P5!!!!!! Where is the difference to the PL5??? Sorry, Oly.

  • Narretz

    Let the Shitstorm begin! Both Olympus and Panasonic better have a good explanation for not bringing a corner EVF in a new model.

    • true homer

      Its very simple, it makes no sense. They already have cameras with view finders, the fact that its not where you want it to be doesnt mean they need to make one. It would be a very very bad decision in fact.
      This is why its miserably stupid to use the same sensor for every model. Now olympus is stuck. If they had made the ep5 with a view finder it would have made the already small omd (or both) redundant. Now the ep5 makes the epl5 redundant. Or both.

      • zozio32

        the ep can’t have the 5 axis IBIS with current design. Just this is enough to differentiate the models.

        and then, have you seen the dslr line up of the other brands? quite often same sensors, but different level of controls, to fit different people and purses.
        They could make a lower OMD without weather sealing and less control, but still with IBIS, and it will still be different from all the Pens.

        • true homer

          a type of ibis is not enough to differentiate.

          Other systems use the same sensor on their cameras but their layouts, viewfinders (brightness, size and frame coverage), features, and capabilities are vastly different. Otherwise people would buy t4i’s instead of 7d’s. What are the differentiations (plural) between the OMD and a PEN with a vf gonna be? IBIS? No accounting department in the universe is gonna give that a green light. The OMD already is very small and doesnt have a lot of buttons, any fewer and we’d be on the epl5. Olympus made their bed with center vf, people are gonna have to accept it. Panasonic might pull it off, and even then I doubt it

        • Beautemps

          Oly has already minimized the 5-axis IBIS in a compact Modell! No more need for a hump. For sure that technology will be a feature of the E-P5.

  • Beautemps

    Innovative would be a E-P5 for lefthanders and righthanders.

    The EVF should have something like a Bajonett instead of a hot shoe. It can’t get lost anymore.

    The hot shoe for the flash could remain in the middle.

  • why

    Oly wants to loose sales – Sony NEX-6 & Fuji X-series have viefinder. OM-D should be smaller (rangfinder style), with better frip (like NEX series) and with in-build flash.

    • zozio32

      if i remeber well, the hump of the OM_D is more for the IBIS than for the viewfinder. The have to put the sensor as close as possible to the optical axis for it.
      No hump => no 5 axis IBIS, as in the new epl5

      • Esa Tuunanen

        Actually viewfinder takes quite big part of hump.
        http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23016

      • Ross

        The so called ‘hump’ could not be any smaller without the IBIS sensors because the accessaries port, EVF & hot shoe is as small as it could be with it all immediately above the display.

        • Ross

          And the only way to lessen the ‘hump’ would be to raise the surrounding body on either side of it or make the display smaller.

    • true homer

      The nex 6 has a vf because it has a different sensor than the nex7, and the fuji xe has a vf because the xpro has a hybrid one. Its all about product differentiation, and olympus doesnt have enough differentiation from the omd to make one.

  • Don Pope

    An integrated EVF in a rangefinder style camera is one of the most requested features on the m4/3 system and yet neither Olympus nor Panasonic have delivered. If Fuji* can do it (with a bigger sensor) why can’t these guys do it.

    *-Sony’s NEXs are not quite rangefinder-style, but they are small enough to prove the point too.

    • adaptor-or-die

      it does seem like they would be missing a demand and market niche? And it makes sense to progress the e-Px line in that direction. They’ve improved on the L & M models, why would they stop with the upper level PEN Or simply make it the larger version of the cheaper lines? The vintage PEN F had analogue feature which translates perfectly to an EVF in a modern camera,they put a lot of effort in making the OMD a digital upgrade … I hope too this is a rumor that only creates talk and nothing more.

  • Bob B.

    For some reason no MFT camera company wants to make “that” camera….the new external VF sounds fantastic, tho. (Surprising that Leica rebranded the existing VF2 for their new “M” and not this upcoming VF).

    • EnPassant

      Maybe because VF-2 is actually excisting on the market while the new EVF is not…

      • Bob B.

        Most likely to meet Leica’s recent release deadline. $500! for the rebranded finder. …I think the Oly would look just fine on the new M! 🙂

  • Jens

    Will there be a new sensor? Mostlikely the OMD-2 will get in autumn???

    No EVF is a good thing, imho, since there is the OMD. P5 should have better ergonomics, better grip (like NEX) and weather sealing, so it can be thrown into the sandy bag at the beach… 🙂

  • Personally I don’t need the viewfinder if it means a sensible price. I would also like to see a GX2 without a VF, just the updated sensor and a sensible price; and then they can put the EVF in the “very high end” model.

  • I don’t care about external viewfinders. If E-P5 doesn’t have the integrated one, I’ll go with E-PL5.

  • No inbuilt EVF – I’m not interested, unless the EVF can be mounted on the left-side top plate so that an external flash or flash cable may still be mounted. Of course, that means probably there wouldn’t be an inbuilt mini-flash, which will cause fits of disappointment and rage by many.

    • Oh, and any external EVF must be the locking kind. I don’t want my camera to shed expensive bits.

  • Sunny

    Hm, difficult for Oly. I think a P5 without integrated vf will be a shelf warmer (as the P3 was). And a P5 with integrated vf will kill the sales of a new external vf.

    I think, a P5 without integrated vf doesn´t make any sense. Some Fn buttons and the thumb wheel is not enough to set it apart from the very cute PL5.

    • true homer

      And then what would separate it from the omd?

      • zozio32

        5 axes IBIS and weather sealing maybe?

        • true homer

          That is not enough, not for an accounting department anyway

  • ISO 1638400

    If no integrated EVF, it would be a supreme kick in the guts once again. Don’t care how good the extra features are on E-P5 if it has no I-EVF. For those who don’t want or care for a RF styled body with I-EVF, just be glad you have your options. But don’t deny and begrudge others of their option to have the camera body they prefer. If you like imitation DSLR shape, that’s fine. Don’t force others to like and accept it. Let us have imitation RF shape with I-EVF for once.

  • Will

    Hahahahaha

    I lived for 3 years expectingthe EVF to come in a Pen styled body, each model was assumed as such, then the rest came and took over and I gave up hope a good 6 months ago though I still hold my lenses (12mm, 20mm and 45mm) I figured history had shown me not to hope any more, and now this, with all the rumours it was again coming, it’s insane.. makes me grin so much, they just handed over a huge market to Fuji and Sony without any competition, the OMD is nice but why the heck would you leave out a VF in the Pen.. it’s begging for it, just like everyone here, Sony manages to stick one in the upper left corner taking up almost no room… seems like it’s an obvious choice for Pana and Oly hence all the people expecting it now for years and years.

    Time to jump ship, unless you dig the OMD, which I personally have mixed feelings about.

  • mahler

    Once upon a time, I believed that Olympus listens to customer needs. (In their troublesome situation, they ought to). The integrated view finder in a PEN style camera is the most wanted feature, the user community would like to see. Hard to believe that a company can ignore this. Without the E-M5 Olympus m4/3 offerings today would be one of the most unattractive ones, and the E-M5 as an integrated view finder.

    If the E-P5 doesn’t have a build- in EVF, Olympus proves that they are unable to listen.

    Olympus note: I and many others potential buyers DON’T BUY CAMERAS WITHOUT INTEGRATED VIEW FINDER,.

    Also, with the release of firmware 1.6 for the E-M5, I lost any confidence that Olympus will fix any of the horrible firmware design mistakes of that camera. They apparently expect that we stupid customers would buy a new Olympus camera year after year. NOPE ! We don’t do this!

  • A built-in viewfinder is not a necessity as far as I’m concerned. I like the articulating VF-2 better than the fixed EVF of the E-M5 and even managed to keep it (it was bundled with the E-P2). I hope that the new external EVF will be offered as kit with the E-P5 and will be somehow seamlessly integrated into the camera body without losing the capability to tilt.

    • OK. No EVF. What can the E-P5 offer instead of it? A swivel hi-res 4:3 rear screen? Better ergonomics? 5axis IBIS? WS body? For $800 with lens? A selling price will determine a potential success of the E-P5.

      • To answer your question ,try to adopt the “Olympus mentality” for a moment. The E-P5 has a carved niche in the Olympus lineup, defined both by its predecessor and its newer peers. It is at the top of the PEN lineup. As such it will keep the pretty looks and the problematic ergonomics of the E-P3 and build on its external design as its main attraction. It may include a “light” version of the new IBIS and a tilt screen. It will probably have a built-in flash. No battery grip, no weather sealing (those attributes are reserved to the OM-D series). No advanced video features either. As to the EVF, I hope the body will have a built-in “housing” for the new unit. You can remove part of the shell in the top left corner and plug the viewfinder in. I think it would be an elegant way of competing with the likes of the NEX 6 and X-E1 without breaching the confines of the PEN series.

      • Twaddler Belafonte

        Mate it with a fast prime in kit form. 😀 Toss in the 17mm f/1.8 for like $300 more and say hello to the feisty scent of my wallet innards.

  • I would downgrade the rumor to a lower FT.

    This time Photorumors was the first to have it:

    http://photorumors.com/2013/03/03/the-next-olympus-pen-camera/#more-39670

    and it quotes an optical OR electronic built in VF.

    It is also possible that this is the beginning of a viral campaign in which Oly marketing doesn’t want us us to know to the last about the VF – it being the main additional feature.

    So they began chatting about the style. Since the Porro design was so distinctive in the Pen F, it would make little sense if a redux had no built in VF.

    Really a single rumor needs two corroborations, before giving it a FT3, in my book. Please make it so.

  • Ulli

    if a rf style design with built-in evf was that important for me, i would have jumped to one of the other excellent systems already long time ago, instead of spending years wishing and/or complaining that mft should have such model in their line-up. I mean, whenever Olympus or Panasonic decide to add such model, just jump back.

    • ISO 1638400

      Not everyone has the money, time or motivation to play camera system hopscotch. Some of us are just plain, poor hobbyists. I don’t make money from my interests in cameras and photography. Jumping back and forth is not only expensive but tiring and time consuming.

      There’s only two camera systems I personally consider for my purposes and preferences: that’s Olympus m4/3 and Fuji X. I’ve researched every other system and camera brand and keep coming back to these two. For me, the Fuji X system isn’t where I need it to be just yet. I almost bought an X-E1 but decided against it. Even at ~$1200 with the excellent 18-55 f/2.8-4 kit-zoom, it’s still a lot of money for me for a system that’s not quite sorted yet. But I’m strongly considering the X100S. From early user reports and real world images, it looks to be a winner. AF, MF, sensor, viewfinder and firmware have all been improved. Even though it’s not a system camera, it could serve as my primary camera, as 35mm is perhaps my favorite FL of all.

      Olympus still ticks most of the boxes for me, so I wouldn’t like to jump ship completely. If I could afford it, I would have both Olympus m4/3 and Fuji X. I may just do that, if finances permit and I can get some good deals on both of them.

      • Ulli

        i dont want to give the impression that i have much money to spend, but i find it easy to sell gear quickly for a reasonable price. I dont mind the decrease of value as long as i know i have been able to make some satisfying sessions during the time using it. I can imagine people prefer to stay within one system, but for me its not a necessity.

      • MarcoSartoriPhoto

        +1 (that x100s looks pretty good….)

  • Tomtom

    No internal viewfinder? Very good, so I don’t have to upgrade from my GF-1 so early 🙂

  • Why on earth should they make yet another M43 camera without built-in viewfinder? It would be totally pointless, given that there is already a nice and good E-PL5…..

    I know that there are folks out there that just don’t like the E-M5 looks and would really like a Pen-like style with built-in finder. And these folks just go over to Fuji or Sony, if Olympus won’t deliver such a camera. It’s not that there are no alternatives on the market.

    Really, a Pen-style camera with built-in finder is not rocket science, Olympus!

    (And those who should really prefer the bulky add-on finder: Keep your E-PL5, there’s no need to worry about anything!)

    • Why build a new m43 at all? There is already one with a built in vf….

  • Incessant Troll

    but wait! its going to have an integrated flash!

    black version Limited, $300 extra comes with grooves to attach a camera strap. Plastic lens hood, $50. Tin lens hood from recycled cans from third world $75 its totally green enviro friendly 🙂 so no guilt

    Lens hood made from recycled steel $100. Limited edition Yakuza silver lens hood, $150. The performance is there.

  • Fortunately, there’s another FT3 rumor about new PEN with integrated viewfinder: http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-new-pen-with-new-epson-integrated-viewfinder-to-come-in-spring/ , so I believe it’s 50/50 at the moment :).

  • Numberwang

    Shame if this were to be true, otherwise Fuji will get my money for the X20 after all.

    • brod1er

      M43 + EP5 + 2.8mpx EVF…….that’s numberwang!

  • Frye

    The Pen has traditionally been the point-and-shoot category, right? Point and shoot = no viewfinder. Dumb, I know. But whoever said marketing departments were very smart? Why should M43 be point-and-shoot at all?

  • john

    When the other systems have caught up with their lens line-ups (soon), I really can’t see what makes mft special besides having comparably expensive bodies and ibis (which only works well in OMD).

  • Alex

    Hey admin, read this post here http://photorumors.com/2013/03/03/the-next-olympus-pen-camera/… it is a whole different story. I hope you not playing with your folowers, just to increase traffic of your site

    • admin

      Alex, again, why should I fool you? It’s 4 years that I have 43rumors and if that would be my policy (the one to fool you) nobody would follow me.

      • admin, you do have a very good record. I trust 43rumors better than photorumors. Just saying.

        • admin

          I can do mistakes. It’s obvious. And to be honest I trust Photorumors. But I am not sure about the rumors I and Photorumors get because it seems like Olympus is sending out wrong info here and there. Of course I know some story I don’t write on 43rumors because it’s to personal. But I am sure olympus is fooling us a bit on the new E-P5 🙂

  • I’m sure it will have an integrated EVF. It just doesn’t make sense to make another PEN without it. It will add nothing to the line. But we do need a non weathersealed camera with en EVF on the side. THAT would add something new to the line.

    • Agree if the new E-P5 have a build in EVF need we be able to bend up also, so we can look down in to EVF like VF2 or VF3.

      • Ross

        It could be interesting if they have the accessories port with hotshoe on the left (to take an external EVF) under a removable cover that keeps the shape of the camera while having a standard hotshoe in the middle, but I’m just dreaming here.

  • Andrew

    Don’t mind no EVF as long as 1) there is a flip-up screen, at least 90 degrees, and 2) there is pop-up flash so it is possible to have both external EVF and flash at the same time, unlike my E-PL5. Honestly I can understand no EVF because they have to differentiate it enough from the new OM-D.

  • scott

    I don’t want a bulky add-on EVF and I really don’t want an E-M5 with a center EVF. Not all of us have such tiny little noses that we can use a center viewfinder. With the E-M5, I would have to squash my nose painfully against the LCD to get my eye close enough to the EVF.

    Better to have a corner EVF and built-in flash than to have a tiny body with lots of accessories attached to it.

    I would rather not switch to Sony/Fuji but we need Olympus/Panasonic to be logical.

    • The corner EVF does not help at all for a lot of people, as they would squash their nose just as much against the back of the body as if it’s a center EVF. Really, about 1/2 of all photographers use the LEFT eye to look through a viewfinder!

      Apart from that, I’d welcome a “corner EVF” body just as most other photographers, it would look smaller and more elegant. Probably they can’t add the bulky E-M5 stabilisation and have to revert for the smaller Pen type, but this would all-in-all make that sensible difference that’s needed to position this camera between the E-PL5 and E-M5.

      If it had no viewfinder, I can’t see any reason for this camera. The E-PL5 already does everything you’ll ever need regarding viewfinderless M43 bodies.

      • scott

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance

        2/3 of the population are right-eyed.

        The left-eyed would be no worse off with a upper-left corner EVF than with a center EVF: they would both be a pain. The center is a pain for everyone with a nose.

        A corner EVF would be a big improvement for 2/3 of people and no worse for the rest.

        • Seeing something in front of you while it is in fact to the right spoils coordination. Not an issue at infinity, but certainly an issue for nearby subjects.

          Finder directly behind the lens (on the lens axis) is ideal, everything else is a compromise, and the further away the viewer is from the lens axis the worse the compromise will become.

          • scott

            If I can’t get my eye up to the viewfinder then it doesn’t matter what might be seen through it.

            My nose is about medium for a western world person. This means I would have to cut a big hole through the LCD to get my eye up to a center viewfinder (except with a camera like the Panasonic G series, where the EVF sticks out substantially beyond the LCD).

            Just put it in the corner please, like rangefinders have done for decades with no problems, and like Sony and Fuji do with their rangefinder-style EVF cameras today.

            • Possibly due to decades of using SLRs, I have no issue with a center viewfinder, despite being western european and having an ‘above average’ sized nose, so ymmv.

              For those who use both eyes and a lens that gives a 1:1 view through the viewfinder, moving the viewfinder to the left corner increases the baseline (distance between your eyes, or in this case between your left eye and the lens), and changes parallax based perception of distance.

              The ‘direct view’ window of a classic rangefinder is far more to the left and typically (almost) directly in front of your eye, which simply prevents this problem.

            • true homer

              Centef vf slrs have been around for decades now! All of the sudden they’re impossible to use? What did you have before mirrorless?

            • Darryl

              My original eyepiece was lost on a long walk, and to my surprise the deeper EP-11 eyepiece solved a number of issues, not least I don’t smudge the rear lcd with my nose in landscape mode.

        • Ulli

          “The center is a pain for everyone with a nose”
          @Scott, you have a “witch” nose i suppose 😉
          Indeed many western people have bigger noses then asian, i guess i must consider
          myself lucky having “no” nose then.

        • MarcoSartoriPhoto

          It comes natural to me to tilt slightly forward my head, when using EVF on Em-5. My nose is not small but I have never had a problem.. Perhaps you need to try it more, I don’t know what to suggest you.

        • For a right-eyed person the center VF is really useful: they can nose-control the thumb wheel.

  • avds

    No vf no buy, sorry… The add-on evf proved to be a hassle.

  • Zeus

    For those without knowledge of the classic film Pen’s, they all of course Did have integrated viewfinders. I’ll be surprised if this (-or the following) iteration of the top Pen mdl goes without.

    • It must also be recognised that the original pen cameras were half frame and the images were in portrait mode.

      For landscape the camera needed rotation 90 degrees. That meant that if it was turned with the shutter button above the lens it was like a rangefinder with VF on the left corner, ones nose was placed alongside the camera. If the other way up it was like a centre viewfinder, with ones nose pressed against the back.
      So it would seem that the old pens could be what one wanted them to be. As long as it was half frame.
      Maybe a new camera could be portrait mode?

  • Michael Devitt

    I think Olympus is worrying about smaller diagonal of the back screen if they use internal EVF in a same sized camera as the E-P3. Put there a 4/3 ratio display and all of a sudden you will get more space for the EVF. But big and wide screens are what costumers want these days or at least it looks good at marketing stickers. Would you trade off big/wide screen for an EVF? I would.

  • caver3d

    To (1) differentiate the E-P5 from the E-PL5 and E-PM2, (2) to counter the coampetition, and (3) to provide what many m43 fans are demanding, it really is imperative that Oly provide the integrated VF in the E-P5. Even Nikon’s V1 has the integrated VF – and it is a good one. Heck, you can buy the V1 right now in a fire sale. The E-P5 with an integrated VF and standard IBIS (not 5-axis) would slot in perfectly between the E-PL5/E-PM2 and the E-M5 (and would be priced accordingly). Leave the most desired and advanced features in the OM-D series. Does this make too much sense?

    • Agree with all the reasons you mention as to why the E-P5 should have an integrated EVF.

      However, Olympus intends to release both a lower and a higher end OM-D camera. The ‘low-end’ one should still have an EVF and should in price be below the E-M5, ie, close to what people expect the E-P5 to cost. I don’t see a real issue there (as those are cameras aimed at totally different shooting styles) but I’ve been told repeatedly by people working at Olympus or being related to Olympus that Olympus DOES regard this as an issue.

      • caver3d

        You bring up an interesting point. I think it puts Olympus in a quandary, as a lower priced OM-D may be directly competitive with the E-P5 (alhtough the lower OM-D may retain the 5-axis?). Getting confusing, and I’m sure Oly is confused too.

  • Ulli

    Admin, did you know that the moderated issue still exists when using name plus email adress while giving comment?

  • Nic Walmsley

    IVF would be nice, but there’s a lot more to start whinging about:

    Will it have new sensor, based on NEX7n (PADF on sensor)

    Will it have weather sealing

    Will it have silent shutter

    Will it have better video standards

    Will it have smart phone capabilities (Apps, even an actual phone)

    Either way, we can be assured that Olympus have made a mess of their product scheduling. The EP5 will either have the same sensor as other 5 series, which will put it behind current generation cameras (NEX7n) or it will have 2013 standard sensor which will mean the 5 series involves a mix of sensor standards (watering down a nice marketing simplicity with the previous PENs).

    Maybe they will skip the EP5 and 2013 will be the year of the 7s, all with sensor based on NEX7n:

    E7, OMD7, EP7

  • Patrick

    For the record, I am still waiting for improved manual focusing assistance, with an enlarged focusing area that is *not* full screen.
    They should simply enlarge the image section inside the preview rectangle.

    • true homer

      Panasonic does that, it’s called window in window manual focus, its great

      • Ross

        Maybe Jeff wrote it, but I would like that feature too.

        • true homer

          its a moron troll, ignore him. Window in window would be great. Or peaking would be even better

  • omolympus

    No integral VF again! No thanks.

  • cds79m

    Do people remember all the speculation about the new EPL5 and EPM2 having the old PEN sensors last year, then Olympus released the specs at the last minute showing that they included the same sensor as the OMD. I’m sure this will be the same thing. All the speculation being that the new EP5 will not have an inbuilt viewfinder, but I’m sure when the specs get released, Olympus will have included one. I think it would be seriously wrong if they didn’t. If they didn’t then I’m sure the EPL5 and EPM2 will see a price drop.

  • Tim

    I still think that the E-P5 will have a somehow integrated Viewfinder-maby you can screw it to the left side-like a battery Grip. Considering that Fuji is hunting in the same region (Retro&small-high quality) there should be a VF-maybe with a surprise?

  • We have at the moment the OMD an SLR look alike and we have 2 pens at the other end one pretending to be a bigger version of the other.
    To make a product line of 3 cameras, we need the OMD as a style and as a high end camera. We need an OMR as a rangefinder style camera with left corner EVF, fixedisplay and similar capability to the OMD and finally an OMM version as a small size high punch option with no EVF or IBIS. All models having a display/options port option for flexibility.

    • true homer

      Olympus is never EVER gonna do that

  • john

    This just doesnt work if you do the math. In EU, you pay 500 for the PM2 kit, 700 for the PL5 kit and 1300 for the OMD kit.

    For bodies, there is no price for PM2, PL5 costs about 600, OMD costs 1100. A new VF would cost around 200 or more if it will be an upgrade to the VF2 (the VF3 doesnt count because its inferior). Provided the P5 body alone costs about 800, there is not much point in getting the P5 + VF because for a little bit more, you could get the OMD. If the body were 700 with at least one major advantage over the PL5, it would cannibalize sales on the PL5. Actually, it would cannibalize sales either way.
    Like many have pointed out, there really isnt a point in introducing the P5 without integrated VF. Actually, the setup with the best cost performance might be PM2+VF2, in that case (I think there is no major advantage for the PL5 if you plan on getting the VF anyways -> no need for tiltable screen).

    • AMVR

      People mention cannibalization as if E-P5 sales would go towards the competition, wake up people ! That money still ends up in Oly’s pocket. If PL5 and OMD sale go down, they just have to cut down on PL5 production and introduce a Pro OMD, no PL5 overstock and OMD demand goes through the roof, problem solved. It’s not like Oly couldn’t juggle each model according to demand, I can’t understand why an incredible successful E-P5 would mean trouble for Oly, if it does better than OMD shouldn’t that be great for everyone ? or are you people dumb enough to think an E-P5 would doom the OMD line ? there’s no chance of that happening, Oly has already stated what direction they want to take the OMD line.

  • Oly behaves sometimes irrationally, and the explanation should be in the fact that no matter what, they are always in the red. So they must extract value from models to the last ounce.

    Compare to Fuji they started with an expensive RF-like model, and then lowered the price with a new one, so everybody is happy. But Fuji has much deeper pockets, and can probably plan far ahead.

    Even in mirrorless no system is an island. At some point a user might be tempted to switch, or have a combination of two.

    As a general consideration mirrorless cameras so far are expensive, and indeed you see dSLR at much more convenient prices. Not having a built in EVF although in a smaller size doesn’t really help, since there is almost no price difference. dSLR have shrunk impressively. Not the lenses, however they cost less.

    Finally a new gen EVF must be expensive, so you sell it separately, and include it later in an OM-D model. But from a user POV this becomes milking the cow. So one might be tempted to look elsewhere – as the debate shows.

    • lorenzino

      As far as I am concerned, a fully 100% functional and working tethering would seal the deal and substitute the EVF or whatever.
      Being able to fully control the camera from far (computer or Ipad) BEFORE taking the pic, that would be the difference at the moment.
      Surprisingly, no single sub-3000 camera at the moment can really be connected to a computer (if not for image proofing AFTER the pic is taken, which is possible with every camera and a dedicated SD card…)

  • Tethering is mainly for studio work, isn’t it? For street shooting I’d rather see a wearable EVF, a’ la Google. But prices mustn’t be neither here nor there.

    What people forget to mention is how *practical* is a built in VF when you need to take a quick shot.

    After all, in the past, View Cameras were replaced by VF for a reason.

  • Idreamphoto

    Why a pl5 with vf. In this case it already exist: om-d ! I hope that olympus knows that.

  • Besides, we don’t need only a built in VF but also pocketable – that is how Leica was born.

    • That was the days of large pockets and loose pants. Today we have small pockets and tight pants.

  • Charles

    Just saw the Nikon announcement of their new DX Mirrorless at dpreview, but it has a fixed lens of 2,8 – no evf or ovf – no swivel lcd – no vr/ibis – max shutter speed of 1/2000 – AND it costs 1100 EUR. I don´t worry about mft anymore…

    • Charles

      And it probably got the old (2010) sensor of the D7000. We shouldn´t be so negative about our little system…

  • Frits

    This may sound unorthodox, but why not remove the built-in flash and just give the e-p5 2 hotshoes? There should be enough space and this would allow you to pick and choose any extras you want (EVF, flash etc.).

  • jon

    EP-1,2, and 3 sold poorly compared to EP-L and E-PM series. OM-D is a logical competitor to NEX-6/7. Oly needs to ditch the EP line, it will just cut into OM-D sales! A Pen for $1000 and OM-D for $1100? Come on, unless this new thing is $700 then people might as well just get the OM-D. It won’t sell.

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